- ntg-context - Mailing Lists

Re: [NTG-context] The ConTeXt book
by Michael Saunders 04 Apr '10

04 Apr '10

> > 1. columns and marginal notes conflict: > > For some of the issues, it would be perhaps a good idea to make proper > bug-reports (with minimal example of course). In some other venue? > P.S.: Please consider fixing or changing your email client: it breaks the threads. Gmail. This is broken? > > 2. leftward protrusion fails > > \definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality] > > \setupalign[hanging,hz] > > \showgrid % or \showframe > > There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge > > is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly: > > > Don't know what you mean, works here. > > \definefontfeature[default][default][protrusion=quality] > > \usetypescript[modern] > \setupbodyfont[modern] The only difference I see is that I'm trying to use a different font than modern: \usetypescriptfile[type-garamond] \starttypescript [MTbook] \definetypeface[MTbook][rm][serif][garamondMD][optical] ... \stoptypescript \usetypescript[MTbook] \setupalign[hanging,hz] \setupbodyfont[MTbook,12pt] So, leftward protrusion only works with Latin Modern? > > 3. protrusion fails in footnotes: > > Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either. > > > You have to enable it separate for notes. > \setupnote[footnote][align={normal,hanging}] I got rightward protrusion with that, but it looks like no hz. Why are the key-values different? I also tried {quality,quality} and got nothing. > > 5. footnotes break between pages > > How do I stop this? > > > No example, no help! Imagine: <one page full of lorem ipsum... containing \footnote{half-page of lorem ipsum...} > The footnote will begin on page one, break halfway through, and continue on the following page. I want to prevent footnotes from breaking in this way. If you really need to see 1.5 pages of concrete "lorem ipsum" posted to understand the problem, I can provide it. > > 9. \raisebox? > > What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent > > ... > \raisebox{1ex}{?} When I try: \raisebox{1ex}{--} Context stops on the error: "A <box> was supposed to be here \raisebox{1ex}{ --}" > > What should ConTeXt do when your font doesn't provide the allcaps feature. Some of the punctuation (e.g., hyphens, en- and em-dashes) should be raised slightly and perhaps given a little extra spacing. The feature is in my serif font, but not in my sans, hence my effort to correct this. > > 10. problematic characters in grid typesetting. > > Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a > > notch. Is there a better way to deal with this? > > > You can change the height/depth ratio of a line. > \setupinterlinespace[height=0.6,depth=0.4] I must remember to put that convenient command before every majescule Q. By the way---I am thrilled to hear of and very eager to see Idris's book! > But maybe a select audience of test-able volunteers will be the way to go... I volunteer to be testable. > Yep. But when you actually run into one of these problems in LaTeX, you > are often more or less left alone - unlike ConTeXt and this list. I'm pursuing it with the hope of more beautiful results, but I'm not getting my problems solved here so far.

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The ConTeXt book: A summary
by Yet Another ConTeXt user 04 Apr '10

04 Apr '10

If you were surprised, like me Fifty emails, in your inbox to see Let me help you with a summary Of what happened, using a poor excuse for poetry It was the day of fools When Arthur tried to be cool In ConTeXt mailing list he shouted, "Look I am going to write a ConTeXt book!" Everyone was happy and had a thrill Till Martin said, "it is the first of April" His joke ruined, Arthur was sad He said Martin, this is bad Other users were also upset, taken for a ride The lack of a book, is not a matter of pride There were cries and a big fuss I was just getting started, said Russ After that comments did pour Its not even funny, said Gour All of us would be out of luck If Hans were to be hit by a bus! Citing Douglas Adams said Taco That will make the bus, a shamed loco In time back it 'ill go And slam its breaks, like a pro Writing documentation is no fun It that the reason it is shun Even if you do write something Does anyone even read the damn thing? Taco lamented all he hears is that 'it sucks' Demotivated, he may just pass the buck "Oh please, don't let the project slack If you write something, we will give you feedback" This circle of arguments is always repeated Whenever the question of documentation gets tweeted A new conspiracy theory was added this time "They want to keep it a secret," it's a crime I am sick and tired of all the pretext Why do you think anyone should write a book on ConTeXt? Taco and Hans, their hands are full Everyone else is just using a tool (Actually when I was writing this chronology Irdis was thinking about a typographical ontology) If you think that the documentation is lacking Do something, rather than slacking Here's a suggestion, if I may give to thee Follow it, and you'll be a ConTeXt prodigee Pick up a pen and go 'n write On any part of ConTeXt that you like A wiki article, a blog post, are good places to start People reading them will relish the knowledge it imparts Write an example, show how things work Don't just hide there and lurk If nothing else, write about what you find confusing Others writing documentation may find it motivating On this note, this summary I'll end You were not offended, I'll pretend Finally a request, if I may Let me be anonymous, please, I pray A promise in passing, I'll also make Someday a ConTeXt book or tutorial, I'll bake I am waiting for time and a muse At least, that is my excuse -- A ConTeXt User

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The ConTeXt book
by Michael Saunders 04 Apr '10

04 Apr '10

Wolfgang: Thanks---I'll go over what I can of those this weekend and get back to you and Taco about them in a few days. Peter: > > That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of > > basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it > > can't, but there is no way to find out. > > Could you please provide a typical example? Here are ten: 1. columns and marginal notes conflict: \setupcolumns[n=2,rule=off,distance=20pt] \setupinmargin[style=\ss,align=outer] \startcolumns text text \inmargin{text} text \stopcolumns The marginal notes always print to the left of the column. This works perfectly for the left column, but fails for the right column---they overprint the text of the left column. 2. leftward protrusion fails \definefontfeature[...][default][...,protrusion=quality,expansion=quality] \setupalign[hanging,hz] \showgrid % or \showframe There is no leftward protrusion at all. Everything on the left edge is flush with the margin, even 'T' and 'J'. Similarly: 3. protrusion fails in footnotes: Even on the right edge. Hz isn't happening in them either. 4. interactive headers/footers I'd like to make my header and footer texts hyperlinks to the head that they point to. I'm trying this: \setupinteraction[state=start,color=darkgreen,contrastcolor=darkred] \setupinteractionscreen[option=fit,view=fit] \newcommand{\gmpt}{\getmarking[pt]} \newcommand{\swpt}{{\goto{\getmarking[part]}[\gmpt]}} \setupfootertexts[margin][\rlap\swpt\hfill][\hfill\llap{\getmarking[chapter]}] (By the way, I'm resorting to this misdirection with the \newcommands only because Context gives me an error whenever it finds nested brackets. E.g., \newcommand{\swpt}{{\goto{\getmarking[part]}[\getmarking[pt]]}} would fail.) Then, at the beginning of a part, I have to add the extra marking to carry the reference in the 'pt' marker (right?), e.g.: \part[pt:one]{One}\marking[pt]{pt:one} But this does not work. (By the way, all of this \defineXYZ, \setupXYZ, \XYZ stuff is confusing. It seems like there is some kind of purpose to this pattern of naming, but I can't find what it is.) So, I experimented: {\about[pt:one]} (a particular reference) works {\about[\gmpt]} (referring through the marking) fails---so I can find no automatic way of doing it. (By the way, why are my footnote markers all green---shouldn't they be red? could I make them black? Why does clicking on them sometimes send me to a random page?) 5. footnotes break between pages How do I stop this? 6. hyphenation between pages. How do I stop this? 7. opening state I'd like my document to open in Adobe reader showing one page at a time (as if "click to open one page at at time" had been pressed). 8. description I spent the evening trying to get \definedescription to set a description on a line of its own followed by an explanatory paragraph. I tried most of the keys/values. I never got anything that looked good, let alone close to what I wanted. Finally, I spent a few seconds writing a humble LaTeX-esque line: \newcommand{\defhead}{\switchtobodyfont[gillSB,12pt]\ss} \newcommand{\desclist}[2]{\crlf{\noindent\defhead #1\emspace#2}\crlf} that did the job. 9. \raisebox? What is the proper way to raise or lower a bit of text? I just spent a lot of trial and error to find this: \inframed[frame=off,offset=.5pt,height=17.3pt]{--} to raise my en-dashes a little when \setff{ac} (for all caps) didn't work with one font. 10. problematic characters in grid typesetting. Unless I set grid=verytolerant, my 'Q' knocks the next line down a notch. Is there a better way to deal with this? > > switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people > > try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go > > back to LaTeX. > > Why do you? Because I think it might be possible to produce better output with Context than with LaTeX (is this true?). My experience has been quite different from yours. I got up an running with LaTeX in a week (in 1995), found the documentation clear and almost any effect I wanted easy to achieve with well-documented packages that never seriously conflicted. This, on the other hand, is a nightmare.

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The ConTeXt book
by Michael Saunders 03 Apr '10

03 Apr '10

"This is the project which has only 5 or 6 users. Who actually uses it? Use LaTeX!" That's the feeling I'm getting. I'm finding it hard to do a lot of basic things in Context. Maybe Context can do them and maybe it can't, but there is no way to find out. If the claims that Context is better really aren't empty, I would expect a lot of people to switch, but I imagine 99% of them are in the same boat I'm in---trying to switch and finding it practically impossible. I imagine many people try, spend a week trying to get it to work and then give up and go back to LaTeX. Mojca's point, that Context is commercial, may be the key: it can be free in name only but if the means of using it are kept secret, it's only of benefit to Pragma. (Hans himself mentioned earlier that there are many undocumented options for use in-house only that outsiders see in the code and wonder about.) Taco's objection that no one helps with the community project to update the reference manual is reasonable, but also predictable: strangers cannot simply wander in and write the book. The knowledge is in Hans's head (and maybe a few others), and only they can communicate it. It's evident that they either can't or won't. I really would like to see the quality of computer typesetting advance, and I was hopeful at hearing about Luatex/Context. I'd love to see Context produce better output more easily than LaTeX, but so far I'm putting a lot of effort into it to get some very disappointing results. One might place some hope in a future (21st c.?) LaTeX 3 based on Luatex, but that would depend on Hans explaining how Luatex works, and it seems doubtful that would ever happen. For now I'm sticking with Context because I still hope there might be some value in it, but it's hard to find.

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Error under Ubuntu Lnux
by Alain Delmotte 03 Apr '10

03 Apr '10

Hi! I installed Ubuntu 9.10 (in a VMWare Player under Windows) I also installed the minimals and TeXworks (in the ConTeXt tree). I run setuptex, TeXworks but then I get an error. Here information: This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.50.0-2009122419 \write18 enabled. (/home/alain/Documents/context/premier.tex ConTeXt ver: 2010.03.30 18:56 MKIV fmt: 2010.4.1 int: english/english .../... For a simple source (created under Linux), here the source and the error: % a comment \starttext This is some text! \stoptext ------------------ .../... fonts : preloading latin modern fonts {/home/alain/context/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map}{/home/alain/context/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map} bodyfont : 12pt rm is loaded language : language en is active {/home/alain/context/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-base.map} systems : begin file untitled-1.tex at line 3 error: ...text/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/spac-ver.lua:610: attempt to index field 'spec' (a nil value) . l.6 ? Process interrupted by user ------------------------------------ For a longer source (from Windows): fonts : preloading latin modern fonts {/home/alain/context/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-math.map}{/home/alain/context/tex/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/lm/lm-rm.map} bodyfont : 12pt rm is loaded language : language en is active {/home/alain/context/tex/texmf-context/fonts/map/pdftex/context/mkiv-base.map} systems : begin file premier.tex at line 1 error: ...text/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/spac-ver.lua:848: attempt to index local 'ps' (a nil value) . \dosomelistelement ...\relax \fi }\hss }}\endgraf \nointerlineskip \endgraf ... \dodolistelement ...ement {#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6} \global \utilitydonetrue \processlistofstructure ...\fi \fi \fi \endcsname \ctxlua {structure.lists.p... l.1 \processlistofstructure{section}{section}{1} \placestructurelist ...ts.process("#1","#2","#3")} \doplacecombinedlist ...dlistparameter \c!number } \doendoflist \stoplistrefe... ... l.4 ? ---------------------------------- Any advice to solve this? Thanks, Alain

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The ConTeXt book
by Arthur Reutenauer 03 Apr '10

03 Apr '10

Hello, This is to inform you that's I've been commissioned by Hans and Taco to work on a manual for ConTeXt, under their supervision, during the next 12 months. After the recent discussions about documentation on this list, they have agreed that the lack of a complete manual was getting more and more serious, and they have decided to fix this by delegating this task. The project will be financed full-time by Pragma and Bittext, their respective companies, and we're seeking other sources that would allow us to pay another writer. Anyone volunteering on behalf of her / his company, or of her / his own initiative, please contact us! Over the next weeks I will collect opinions from users about their respective priorities, and what they (you!) think the book should look like. Cheers, Hans (pragma at wxs do nl) Taco (taco at elvenkind dot com) Arthur (arthur dot reutenauer at normalesup dot org)

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The ConTeXt book
by Michael Saunders 03 Apr '10

03 Apr '10

Taco: >> Some feedback on the quality other than 'it sucks' would have helped >> enormously. ... > Over the past four years, it has been next to impossible to get people > interested in the reference manual project, not even for something as > simple as reading the rewritten chapters and telling me what they think > about it. ... > The near total lack of feedback had led me to believe that most > complainers are in it just for the complaining. I've been trying to be more constructive than saying 'it sucks'. I'm not complaining just to complain---I want to get the most I can out of the software. Please point me to a rewritten chapter you would like me to look at and I will give it a try.

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Metapost inclusion does not work
by Marco 03 Apr '10

03 Apr '10

Hi, the following example just prints »Hello World!«, without the square. What's wrong? \startuseMPgraphic{test} fill fullsquare scaled 5cm; \stopuseMPgraphic \starttext Hello World! \useMPgraphic{test} \stoptext ConTeXt ver: 2010.03.20 22:59 MKIV this is luatex, version beta-0.50.0-2009122419 BTW: The same with luatex 0.52 Thanks in advance. marco

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Bibtex: how to make autohang work?
by Hubertus 02 Apr '10

02 Apr '10

Hello again, I'm using this setup for my bibliography: \setuppublications[alternative=apa, refcommand=short, autohang=yes, numbering=short, sorttype=bbl, criterium=cited] So the keys are sometimes 7 characters long and thus overwrite the actual bibliography. That's way I thought I should use "autohang=yes". Yet, there's not any change. Did I miss anything? Thanks for advice Hubertus

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footnote and hyphens splitting between pages
by Michael Saunders 02 Apr '10

02 Apr '10

>> Is there any way to prevent footnotes splitting between pages? ?I >> thought the undocumented key, 'split' might control this (who knows?), >> but it has no effect on anything. >> >> Also, is there any way to prevent hyphenation between pages? luigi scarso: > I'm completely ignorant about this subject. > Do you have a pathological example to test ? Consider a page of "Lorem ipsum dolor..." containing within its first half, a half-page long footnote of "Lorem ipsum dolor...". Context is likely to start the footnote on page one and continue it on page two. I want to forbid this. In the second case, imagine a very long book of "Lorem ipsum dolor...". There are likely to be occasions where a word is hyphenated at the very end of the page, splitting a word between two pages. I want to forbid this too.

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