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Re: [Dev-luatex] Q: Why does LuaTeX embed rather than extend?
by Hans Hagen 04 Jul '08

04 Jul '08

Jonathan Fine wrote: > Hello Hans > >> maybe in 2016 we have reached a point that many aspects of tex have >> been rewritten in more independent c modules that then are glued >> together by lua but it does not change the principle ... it's still >> 90% tex then > > Hans, are you saying here that extend would be better, were it not so > much work? Or are you saying something else? I'm not sure. well, we're are quite content with tex as it is but decided it was time to open it up and use lua for that purpose (with the added benefit of a scripting language that can be used for other purposes); there' snothing wrong with tex as it is apart from some things that we wanted to add to it for a long time and the fact that it had to go open type, unicode etc etc our choices are such that no solutions are implemented (this saves much useless discussions that due to conflicting opinions would lead to nothing) but only mechanisms for users (macro package writers) to add functionality to tex; the basic building blocks remain >> also, our choice for lua, as well as the decisions we make are driven >> by respect for tex (as it is), lua as it is, the things that the >> three of us have wanted to see in tex for ages and of course fun > > My question is not about your choice of Lua, but the decision to embed > rather than extend. As I already mentioned, the socket module extends Lua. we use lua as it is meant ... as an extension language sockets are a general purpose library which is quite something different from tex > Here's another example. LuaSQL is an extension of Lua that allows "a > Lua program to connect to ODBC, ADO, Oracle ... databases" and perform > database operations. > http://www.keplerproject.org/luasql/index.html > > LuaSQl is C source that can be compiled to generate a library that can > be linked to the application or dynamically loaded. > http://www.keplerproject.org/luasql/manual.html#compiling > > Providing a typesetting extension to Lua would similarly allow any Lua > program to connect to the typesetting engine and perform typesetting > operations. of the reverse, one can extend luatex to load extra libraries luatex is the core application; just as games that use lua are core applications, and just as adobe does not extend lua with imagine libs but provides an application that uses lua; take fontforge ... it uses python as extension language and remains the core app > [discussion of documentation snipped] > >> well, that would be true for all games that use lua, editors, adobe >> progs etc ... it makes no sense to link all of them together ... you >> miss the whole point lua > > I think it makes perfect sense to link an editor and a typesetting > engine together. And someone writing a 'Learn Mathematics' game might > wish to connect to a typesetting engine. as said, maybe in 2016 we have redone so much that one can think of luatex as a collection of libs, but even then a user needs the application luatex for it to be useful in itself also, we want a stable and well defined next generation tex, which means that luatex has all the libs that we decide to make sense built in (and maintained in the source tree); also, on top of luatex one uses macro packages; luatex in itself is not that useful (btw, if one thinks of lua as a huge collection of libs, then it becomes like perl, python, ruby etc ... big bigger biggest and we enter maintainance, compatibility, distribution etc problems ... again a reason why we used lua as an *extension* language.. small is beautiful) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Q: Why does LuaTeX embed rather than extend?
by Jonathan Fine 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

I've got a question about a LuaTeX design decision. I'd like to know why LuaTeX embeds Lua in a typesetting program. Perhaps it could instead have extended Lua with a typesetting module. Here's how to embed Lua (in the host program): http://www.lua.org/manual/5.0/manual.html#3 Here's how to extend Lua (with additional 'builtins'): http://www.lua.org/manual/5.0/manual.html#3.16 Here's an example of a Lua extension: http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/~diego/professional/luasocket/ One of the key difference between embed and extend is that Lua socket "is available to any Lua application once it has been properly initialized by the interpreter in use." LuaTeX, because it embeds Lua, is not be similarly available to other Lua applications. -- Jonathan

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Different results between dvi and pdf modes
by Khaled Hosny 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

The following example (from the TeXbook source) works fine in dvi mode, but gives an error in pdf mode: \font\cmman=cmman \line{\cmman The\hfill T\kern-10pt\lower13pt\hbox{E}\kern-5pt Xbook} \bye And the error that I get when I run "luatex --output-format=pdf" (pdftex works fine though): This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.28.0-2008063017 (Web2C 7.5.6) (t.tex [1{/var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}]kpathsea: Running mktexpk --mfmode / --bdpi 72 --mag 1+0/72 --dpi 72 cmman mktexpk: Mismatched mode ljfour and resolution 72; ignoring mode. mktexpk: Can't guess mode for 72 dpi devices. mktexpk: Use a config file or option to specify the mode; see: mktexpk: http://tug.org/texinfohtml/kpathsea.html#Unable-to-generate-fonts kpathsea: Appending font creation commands to missfont.log. ) luaTeX warning (file cmman): Font cmman at 72 not found </usr/share/texmf-texlive/fonts/type1/bluesky/cm/cmr10.pfb> Output written on t.pdf (1 page, 3199 bytes). Transcript written on t.log. Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team

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Cron <luatex@metatex> /var/www/luatex.org/www/bin/luatex-svn
by root＠www.metatex.org 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/luatex.web U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/psout.w U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/mp.w U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/luanode.c U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/ptexlib.h U svn/trunk/manual/luatexref-t.tex Checked out revision 1362.

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Unicode in \pdfinfo
by Khaled Hosny 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

\pdfinfo doesn't seem to support Unicode, when I compile the attached example with luatex I get symbols like Ù‡ØµØ© instead of the proper (Arabic) Unicode strings. Shouldn't luatex default to Unicode here too? Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localizer and member of Arabeyes.org team

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The current archive is only available to the list members
by Jonathan Fine 03 Jul '08

03 Jul '08

Hello I've been lurking on this list for a couple of months, and it seems to me that it would be really helpful to the TeX and Lua communities if their members could read the messages, without having to subscribe to the list. For what it's worth, I think most open-source devel mailing lists are publicly viewable. I'd like to know what the other list members think. Jonathan

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Cron <luatex@metatex> /var/www/luatex.org/www/bin/luatex-svn
by root＠www.metatex.org 02 Jul '08

02 Jul '08

U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/psout.w U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/mp.w U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/lmplib.c Checked out revision 1360.

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Beta 0.28.0 and \pattern
by Jonathan Sauer 02 Jul '08

02 Jul '08

Hello, Take the following PlainTeX example: --------------------------------------------------------- % \input hyphen % A \showhyphens{regarding} \bye --------------------------------------------------------- This results in: --------------------------------------------------------- This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.28.0-2008070118 (Web2C 7.5.6) (hyphenOther.tex Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 5--5 [][] \tenrm regarding ) (see the transcript file for additional information) No pages of output. Transcript written on hyphenOther.log. --------------------------------------------------------- When uncommenting line (A), the result is as follows: --------------------------------------------------------- This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.28.0-2008070118 (Web2C 7.5.6) (hyphenOther.tex (/usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf.tetex/tex/generic/hyphen/hyphen.tex) Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 5--5 [][] \tenrm re-gard-ing ) (see the transcript file for additional information) No pages of output. Transcript written on hyphenOther.log. --------------------------------------------------------- Compare with beta 0.27: --------------------------------------------------------- This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.27.0-2008062418 (Web2C 7.5.6) (hyphenOther.tex Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 5--5 [][] \tenrm re-gard-ing ) (see the transcript file for additional information) No pages of output. Transcript written on hyphenOther.log. --------------------------------------------------------- So it seems that hyphenation patterns are not dumped into the format file anymore. Incidentally, contrary to what the manual says in section 9.5, the format file is not compressed (or at least not all of it): When opening it with a text editor, the hyphenation patterns, when using beta 0.27, are contained as plain text. A quick test using Zip on the PlainTeX format file reduces its size from 356K to 288K. Another test with a format file of 34M (containing the 420,000-word list from the dehyph-exptl project as hyphenation exceptions) shows a reduction to ~26M. Jonathan

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Luatex beta 0.28.0 released
by Taco Hoekwater 30 Jun '08

30 Jun '08

Hi all, I have just uploaded the archives for luatex 0.28.0, another intermediate release leading up to TUG 2008. This release matches SVN revision #1357. There is one new feature: There is now experimental support for non-trivial discretionaries following explicit hyphens. In analogy to \prehyphenchar and \posthyphenchar, there are two new parameters \preexhyphenchar en \postexhyphenchar. Both new parameters default to zero (nothing). When set to a nonzero value, the parameter is added to either the pre- or post- break text. Note that this is *in addition to* the hyphen already in the input. Testing and comments are very welcome. Here is a short example (no idea what is says): \pdfoutput=1 \hsize=2in \postexhyphenchar=`- Seria bom se eu pudesse t\^e-lo mantido como amigo, mas por mais bem-intencionado que eu fosse, n\~ao foi possivel \bye Bugs fixed compared to 0.27.0: * Words that started off with a character with a zero \lccode were never hyphenated at all. * There was a bug in the new active characters code that prevented the latex format from being built (with Invalid character error). * There is a temporary fix for the sometimes appearing "Font has a bad FontBB" message from Acrobat. * \leaders did not actually stretch enough (the last bit of glue that has to line up the line endings was never output to the PDF). * Bad paragraph-related callbacks could result in luatex crashing. * The pre_linebreak and post_linebreak filters were never called when \output was active (this was a leftover of a superceded optimization). * 'skipping' language codes when setting up \patterns c.s. did not work (it used the next empty slot instead of the actual value of \language). * Using multiple 'attr' keywords on box items could cause random crashes. * Calling lang.hyphenate() with one argument (without specifying a tail node) could crash. * The luatex pdf banner and version reporting is cleaned up a bit. * Conflicting patterns inside \patterns now give an error: ! Conflicting pattern ignored. (duplicate identical patterns are ignored without error). The archives (source and binaries) can be downloaded from supelec, as usual: http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/luatex/ Bugs and feature requests can be added to the issue tracker at http://tracker.luatex.org Have fun, Taco

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Cron <luatex@metatex> /var/www/luatex.org/www/bin/luatex-svn
by root＠www.metatex.org 30 Jun '08

30 Jun '08

U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/luatex.web U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lang/texlang.c U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/lua/llanglib.c U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/ptexlib.h U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/tex/linebreak.c U svn/trunk/src/texk/web2c/luatexdir/luatex.defines U svn/trunk/manual/luatexref-t.tex Checked out revision 1347.

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