open quotation not working

Ciro A. Soto

12 Oct 2013 12 Oct '13

9:07 p.m.

When I use `` to open a quotation, I don't get the character for open quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing quotation works fine) Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish) thank you ciro Books you should read: [image: Lead, Follow & Suceed] http://www.kavyata.com/lfs.html [image: The Guitar Maker] http://www.kavyata.com/tgm.html [image: La Vida, El Amor, La Mujer] http://www.kavyata.com/vam.html My social profile: [image: Facebook]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=752641627 [image: Twitter] http://www.twitter.com/CASotoAguirre

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Ciro A. Soto

12 Oct 12 Oct

10:09 p.m.

sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation thank you Ciro ciro Books you should read: [image: Lead, Follow & Suceed] http://www.kavyata.com/lfs.html [image: The Guitar Maker] http://www.kavyata.com/tgm.html [image: La Vida, El Amor, La Mujer] http://www.kavyata.com/vam.html My social profile: [image: Facebook]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=752641627 [image: Twitter] http://www.twitter.com/CASotoAguirre On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:07 PM, Ciro A. Soto wrote:

...

When I use `` to open a quotation, I don't get the character for open quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing quotation works fine) Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish) thank you

ciro

Books you should read:

[image: Lead, Follow & Suceed] http://www.kavyata.com/lfs.html [image: The Guitar Maker] http://www.kavyata.com/tgm.html [image: La Vida, El Amor, La Mujer] http://www.kavyata.com/vam.html My social profile: [image: Facebook]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=752641627 [image: Twitter] http://www.twitter.com/CASotoAguirre

Wolfgang Schuster

13 Oct 13 Oct

3:30 a.m.

Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

...

sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}. Wolfgang

john Culleton

21 Oct 21 Oct

11:57 a.m.

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

...
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang ________________________________________________________________________

Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification. Not every change is an improvement, IMO. -- John Culleton Wexford Press Free list of books for self-publishers: http://wexfordpress.net/shortlist.html PDF e-book: "Create Book Covers with Scribus" available at http://www.booklocker.com/books/4055.html

Khaled Hosny

1:23 p.m.

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 01:57:22PM -0400, john Culleton wrote:

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On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

...
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang ________________________________________________________________________

Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification.

Because the “traditional TeX” was a font hack, if you are fine with using the original Knuth fonts you can still get it. Modern fonts do not implement such a feature. Besides, \quotation{…} provide much more options (like being language sensitive, or handling nested quotes and so on). Regards, Khaled

Peter Münster

1:55 p.m.

On Mon, Oct 21 2013, john Culleton wrote:

...

Not every change is an improvement, IMO.

On Sat, Jul 27 2013, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

On the other hand many languages use different quotation marks and using ``these'' is completely "americanocentric". On top, auto-replacement lead to inability to typeset the actual backtick (`) when it's needed. So yes, getting rid of `` replaced by quotation by default *was* an improvement.

(copied from http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074277.html ) -- Peter

Hans Hagen

5:43 p.m.

On 10/22/2013 2:57 AM, john Culleton wrote:

...

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:30:54 +0200 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

...
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Wolfgang ________________________________________________________________________

Why is it better? And why is it so difficult to just reinstall the traditional TeX method of handling quotes? Even the MSWin version of smart quotes using the " glyph would be a worthwhile simplification.

traditional tex was meant for (us) english ... and geared at cm fonts .. you can't expect all context users to take english as their default so either you use the proper quotes for your language (as wolfgang pointed out) or you use \quotation (which adapt itself to the main language)

...

Not every change is an improvement, IMO.

there are more such traditional features that are fine in a restricted usage but not that handy today btw, if you look into the traditional tex fonts you see more pseudo ligatures (-- --- space+... some quotes) and if you ever had to use a commercial font or a free one not tuned for tex, you wouldn't have had those quote ligs either ... it is a dependency you don't want nowadays Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Mojca Miklavec

22 Oct 22 Oct

8:38 a.m.

On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:

...
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, . For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for my taste though. LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq & \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand the pattern). There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright & \quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single & double quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which would always generate the desired character (if looking for hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p - 9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg; 201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I also don't miss any of these commands. MS Word at least does the proper auto-replacement if the right language is used, but in TeX most people here just cloned Knuth's approach without giving a single thought to the local grammar & its rules. @John: you can always create your own feature file to do the replacement and load it. Mojca

Wolfgang Schuster

3 p.m.

Am 22.10.2013 um 16:38 schrieb Mojca Miklavec :

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On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
Am 13.10.2013 um 06:09 schrieb Ciro A. Soto:

...
sorry, I just saw an old chain of messages about this question... I fixed it with the translation module. \usemodule[translate] \translateinput[``][“] \enableinputtranslation

Better use real quotation marks “ and ” or \quotation{…}.

Or \quotedblleft, \quotedblright, \quotedblbase, . For the flowing text these are a bit too long to use and remember for my taste though.

LaTeX sometimes uses \grqq & \glqq which are a whole lot shorter, but also not the easiest one to remember (or at least I don't understand the pattern).

There could be something like \quotationleft/\quotationright & \quoteleft/\quoteright for a single language-dependent single & double quotation marks. And maybe another language-independent version which would always generate the desired character (if looking for hard-to-remember shortcuts, l/u - lower/upper; g/b/p - 9-like/6-like/reversed 9-like shape, q/qq - single/double quotation mark; so 201C “ - \qqub [or \ubqq], 201D ” - \qqug; 201E „ - \qqlg; 201F ‟ - \qqup). Personally I never use them unpaired other than in obscure situations (like listing all characters), so I like \quotation and \quote a lot more than the TeX approach which taught almost everyone here to use the wrong quotation marks. And consequently I also don't miss any of these commands.

\starttext \symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] right\symbol[rightquotation] \language[de] \symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] right\symbol[rightquotation] \setuplanguage [de] [leftquote=›, rightquote=‹, leftquotation=», rightquotation=«] \symbol[leftquotation]Left \symbol[leftquote]middle\symbol[rightquote] right\symbol[rightquotation] \stoptext Wolfgang

Wolfgang Schuster

13 Oct 13 Oct

3:02 a.m.

Am 13.10.2013 um 05:07 schrieb Ciro A. Soto :

...

When I use `` to open a quotation, I don't get the character for open quotation, instead, I get the two single quotation character. (The closing quotation works fine) Is there any command to fix this? (the problem occurs in english or spanish) thank you

Read the answers for this thread: http://www.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/2013/074213.html Wolfgang

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participants (7)

Ciro A. Soto
Hans Hagen
john Culleton
Khaled Hosny
Mojca Miklavec
Peter Münster
Wolfgang Schuster