Hi,
When using \start/stopquotation in French documents, there is a missing space:
\mainlanguage[fr] \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] \starttext bla \quotation{OK} bla\ bla «OK» bla \startquotation Not Ok: a space is missing \stopquotation \stoptext
Is this a bug or a feature?
How could I get a space before "»" please?
TIA for any help,
From my basic environment file, a useful reminder:
%% \mainlanguage sets language used for labels (TOC, chapters, ...) %% \language sets language to use for hyphenation, quote rules, ...
Rik Kabel schrieb am 30.05.2024 um 19:21:
From my basic environment file, a useful reminder:
%% \mainlanguage sets language used for labels (TOC, chapters, ...) %% \language sets language to use for hyphenation, quote rules, ...
\mainlanguage includes all settings of \language.
As you can see in the following example \mainlanguage change the float label and the quotation marks but \language changes only the quotation marks and uses the label of the main language.
%%%% begin example \starttext
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{English quotes}] \midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=red]} \stopplacefigure
\start \mainlanguage[nl] \startplacefigure[title=\quotation{Dutch quotes}] \midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=green]} \stopplacefigure \stop
\start \language[fr] \startplacefigure[title=\quotation{French quotes}] \midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=blue]} \stopplacefigure \stop
\stoptext %%%% end example
Wolfgang
My apologies to all, and thank you, Wolfgang. Time to update my notes.
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
\mainlanguage[fr] \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] \starttext bla \quotation{OK} bla\ bla «OK» bla \startquotation Not Ok: a space is missing \stopquotation \stoptext
It seems, that this workaround solves the problem: \setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
Peter Münster schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 13:31:
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
\mainlanguage[fr] \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] \starttext bla \quotation{OK} bla\ bla «OK» bla \startquotation Not Ok: a space is missing \stopquotation \stoptext
It seems, that this workaround solves the problem: \setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
The quotation environment doesn't rely on the characterspacing mechanism to add the spaces before and the after the quotes but uses language dependent skips.
The example below shows how it works and where it fails when you use characterspacing. Resetting spacing (and probably other settings like charcterkerning etc.) when the quotes are added as you noticed fixes the problem.
%%%% begin example \starttext
\dontleavehmode \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\dontleavehmode \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\dontleavehmode \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax «\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax \hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\stoptext %%%% end example
What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
I would use the symstyle key as hook to disable charcterspacing for the quotes in the environment.
%%%% begin example \mainlanguage[fr]
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing]
\starttext
«xxx»
\startquotation xxx\stopquotation
\stoptext %%%% end example
Wolfgang
I have *never* understood how this works and, in fact, have always done weird stuff like explicitly putting a nbps before double punctuation (:;) in my document sources. I do this as it makes the sources much more readable, preventing my text editor from ever breaking lines before the punctuation (and not having some space in the source looks awkward when reading French text).
I use:
\setupcharacterspacing [frenchpunctuation] [language=fr] \mainlanguage [fr] \setcharacterspacing [frenchpunctuation] % why necessary? \setupitemize [symbol=2] % dash rather than bullet
This gives proper spacing with \quotation{} and with \startquotation ... \stopquotation. Also, {\en\quotation{}} and {\de\quotation{}} in the document correctly do not add spaces.
Is \setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing] necessary?
Alan
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 14:18:19 +0200 Wolfgang Schuster wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com wrote:
Peter Münster schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 13:31:
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
\mainlanguage[fr] \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] \starttext bla \quotation{OK} bla\ bla «OK» bla \startquotation Not Ok: a space is missing \stopquotation \stoptext
It seems, that this workaround solves the problem: \setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
The quotation environment doesn't rely on the characterspacing mechanism to add the spaces before and the after the quotes but uses language dependent skips.
The example below shows how it works and where it fails when you use characterspacing. Resetting spacing (and probably other settings like charcterkerning etc.) when the quotes are added as you noticed fixes the problem.
%%%% begin example \starttext
\dontleavehmode \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\dontleavehmode \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\dontleavehmode \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax «\hspace[fr][quotation]}% xxx% \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax \hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\stoptext %%%% end example
What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
I would use the symstyle key as hook to disable charcterspacing for the quotes in the environment.
%%%% begin example \mainlanguage[fr]
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
«xxx»
\startquotation xxx\stopquotation
\stoptext %%%% end example
Wolfgang ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror) archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
Alan Braslau schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 16:21:
I have *never* understood how this works and, in fact, have always done weird stuff like explicitly putting a nbps before double punctuation (:;) in my document sources. I do this as it makes the sources much more readable, preventing my text editor from ever breaking lines before the punctuation (and not having some space in the source looks awkward when reading French text).
I use:
[...]
This gives proper spacing with \quotation{} and with \startquotation ... \stopquotation. Also, {\en\quotation{}} and {\de\quotation{}} in the document correctly do not add spaces.
1. \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] takes care about the space before/after quotation marks when you use manual quotes in a document.
It doesn't matter whether you use or don't use space between the quotations marks and the quoted text.
%%%% begin example \starttext
\startlines «quoted text» « quoted text » \stoplines
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\startlines «quoted text» « quoted text » \stoplines
\stoptext %%%% end example
2. When you use the quotation command or environment ConTeXt adds a space between the quotation marks and the quoted text by itself but in the quotation-environment the space before the closing mark disappears when you add \setcharacterspacing.
%%%% begin example \language[fr]
\starttext
\startquotation quoted text \stopquotation
\quotation{quoted text}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\startquotation quoted text \stopquotation
\quotation{quoted text}
\stoptext %%%% end example
Is \setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing] necessary?
It's a temporary fix for the problem with the quotation environment by disabling the characterspacing mechanism when ConTeXt places the quotation marks.
Wolfgang
-
Alan Braslau -
Peter Münster -
Rik Kabel -
Wolfgang Schuster