On 14-7-2011 4:29, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

Thanks for the speedy reply.

2011/7/14 luigi scarso

...

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Is this a problem because of the old Adobe version, or the used fonts? If the latter, which fonts should I use to circumvent this problem?

At the moment I am using: \usetypescript[helvetica] \setupbodyfont[helvetica] because they did not like the default font. It's simple: the host where the adobe pro is run has not the fonts. So the host must install these fonts --- they have a permissive license and they come with the minimals too. This will be true whatever version of Acrobat Pro you will use, even X.

I did not think it had to do with 8, but it is never wrong to ask.

Maybe a dump question, but how do I install the fonts? Or how do I determine a font that is installed with ConTeXt and Adobe? They have about 700 fonts. So maybe there is an usable font that both systems have.

you can look at the list of reported fonts, and put those in the windows/fonts (forget about type1, just stick to the ttf/otf) or instead you can use fonts that come with the operating system when making the pdf Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

2011/7/14 Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 Hans Hagen

...

you can look at the list of reported fonts, and put those in the windows/fonts (forget about type1, just stick to the ttf/otf)

I executed find . -name '*Gyre*'

But that does not find anything.

Found them. The names are all lowercase. I have: ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-regular.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-italic.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bold.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-italic.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-regular.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bolditalic.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bold.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bolditalic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-regular.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-italic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bold.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-italic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-regular.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bolditalic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bold.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bolditalic.otf I can install them without problems? There is no restricting copyright on them? -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 Cecil Westerhof

Found them. The names are all lowercase. I have: ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-regular.otf

./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-italic.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bold.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-italic.otf

./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-regular.otf

./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bolditalic.otf ./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bold.otf

./context/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bolditalic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-regular.otf

./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-italic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bold.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-italic.otf

./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-regular.otf

./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheroscn-bolditalic.otf ./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bold.otf

./ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/opentype/public/tex-gyre/texgyreheros-bolditalic.otf

I can install them without problems? There is no restricting copyright on them?

I installed them. (When you know what to do, it is not hard.) Now I can change the document. The only problem is that when deleting a page, or adding a page, etc., the index and the page numbering does not change. But that could be that I do not understand Adobe. Five minutes is hardly enough to learn to work with it. -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 Mojca Miklavec

From Adobe's point of view the page number is just a string that has nothing to do with the page number itself. And so is the index. Adobe has no information at all that the thing on the first page is an index and thus won't update it.

Then I have a problem. :-{

You also cannot expect from Adobe to support editing equations.

I agree.

You would need to convince your clients to use something similar to LyX (and convince TeX developers to write a better LyX) in order to do that.

That is not going to work I am afraid. Besides that uses TeX/LaTeX and my document is ConTeXt. Is there a possibility to export to a format that is editable? HTML is possible of-course, but is there a better possibility? -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 John Haltiwanger

I installed them. (When you know what to do, it is not hard.) Now I can change the document. The only problem is that when deleting a page, or adding a page, etc., the index and the page numbering does not change. But that could be that I do not understand Adobe. Five minutes is hardly enough to learn to work with it.

...

This would be a funciton of typesetting. The table of contents is indexed to the document as it is typeset, not dynamically throughout its existence. If you were to delete all the pages except for the table of contents, it would still refer to all the same pages.

If this is a necessary part of your workflow, then it sounds like a WYSIWYG tool like Scribus or InDesign is more appropriate (unfortunately).

The problem is that my document already is finished. First I could just deliver a PDF file. Now they want to edit it themselves. Or can I generate from my tex file something that has the meta information and can be edited in Scribus? -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 John Haltiwanger

This would be a funciton of typesetting. The table of contents is indexed to the document as it is typeset, not dynamically throughout its existence. If you were to delete all the pages except for the table of contents, it would still refer to all the same pages.

If this is a necessary part of your workflow, then it sounds like a WYSIWYG tool like Scribus or InDesign is more appropriate (unfortunately).

...

The problem is that my document already is finished. First I could just deliver a PDF file. Now they want to edit it themselves. Or can I generate from my tex file something that has the meta information and can be edited in Scribus?

Nope. As Mojca mentioned, PDF does not account for this kind of thing. I mentioned those tools as a basis for constructing an entire document from scratch. They have automatic page referencing similar to Context, but not in a post-hoc fashion.

If they are only copy editing, I think you would be best served by exporting to xhtml. I generally write all my documents in Markdown and convert using Pandoc, so I'm not familiar with Context's xhtml capacities.

If they are doing layout.. Ouch.

I typesetted my document yes. The client has to receive a deliverable this weekend, so my stress hormones will be high the coming days. I have to count my options and select the best. (Or least bad.) Everyone thanks. And next time I want more information when starting writing documentation. -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 Mojca Miklavec

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I typesetted my document yes. The client has to receive a deliverable this weekend, so my stress hormones will be high the coming days. I have to count my options and select the best. (Or least bad.)

If there are tiny corrections to do they can just as well edit the sources themselves (or send you corrections).

That was as how I expected it to going to work. But (now) they want to be completely independent. 'Everybody' should have the possibility to edit the document. In hindsight it was properly the wrong decision to work with ConTeXt. The quality of the document is high, but because of the shift in requirements there is now a problem. Well, I like a challenge. Now I got one. :-) Maybe I should dedicate a page to this problem. I am taken by surprise, but if I can circumvent others to have the same surprise ... -- Cecil Westerhof

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Martin Schröder wrote:

2011/7/14 John Haltiwanger :

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Pandoc, so I'm not familiar with Context's xhtml capacities.

MkIV can create XML. :-)

That is something I have heard much more than I have seen. If it can so easily do so, could a wizard please intervene and provide a recipe for producing XHTML from standard Context input?[^1] I have no doubt it can, but documentation of this relative necessity in this age of multi-output publishing is suboptimal.[^2] I swear that this information will go down throughout the ages as a conduit for better typography (and the wiki page dedicated to this process will become a keystone of expanded possibility in the future). Cecil, I don't think its fair to constrain yourself from ever using Context again. What does 'competely independent' mean? If you have been asked to hand over layout decisions, the best is to reproduce your document in XHTML, copy it into a word processor, and let them proceed with their own desing in their proprietary WYSIWYG software. Even if they just want to make textual changes, this is probably still be your best bet. You can then relatively easily convert them back to Context (a matter of re-mapping text into Context). There is a plan I have to produce an easier-for-point-and-clickers interface to collaborate on high quality Context based layouts, but the time hasn't appeared to materialize it yet. If you search through the archives for 'pandoc' you will see that many of us have chosen to abstract ourselves from direct dependence on Context for our document 'coding'. There is a tangible flexibility provided by writing in a visually semantic preformat like Markdown. It helps during the editing stages because it is easy to generate other formats that people are more familiar with (OpenOffice can be converted to Word---then it is a matter of 'backporting' changes to the Context source). If they weren't clear about planning to take on this design responsibility--which they should have long before the deadline--than I feel it is the fault of the editors and not the fault of Context. Under such conditions I would have written text for these people in something they understand, like an word processor document (LibreOffice can save as MS Word easily enough). Sorry to hear you are having trouble with this. I know what it is like to face the edge of a deadline. PS. For what it is worth, I do not think it would be _too_ hard to create a Context to Markdown translator.[^3] Since the backend supports XML, it should be able to map to a different semantic markup without much trouble.. right? [^1]: No CSS necessary, just classes and/or ids mapped to environment names. Apologies to anyone who has answered this question before: just point me towards where the answer is and I will make sure it finds its way to a prominent place on the wiki. [^2]: I understand that there is a description at the wiki, but it is many years old, maybe older than LuaTeX (the history says it is from 2007). Something fresher is in order I think.

Best Martin

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________

2011/7/15 Taco Hoekwater

MkIV can create XML. :-)

...

That is something I have heard much more than I have seen.

If it can so easily do so, could a wizard please intervene and provide a recipe for producing XHTML from standard Context input?[^1]

\setupbackend[export=yes,**xhtml=yes,css=yes]

But it still has a few issues, so any problem reports are more than welcome.

I tried that, but it ends with: pages > flushing realpage 109, userpage 109 system > end file documentatie at line 2618 ){/home/cecil/ConTeXt/tex/texmf/fonts/enc/dvips/lm/lm-mathsy.enc} backend > export > finalizing ! LuaTeX error ...TeXt/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/back-exp.lua:328: bad argument #2 to 'write' (string expected, got nil). system > tex > error on line 0 in file : LuaTeX error ... <empty file> <*> ./documentatie ? -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/15 John Haltiwanger

Cecil, I don't think its fair to constrain yourself from ever using Context again.

That was not what I mend. When making my own stuff where I do not have the need off interoperability I will keep using it. But in other case I should evaluate the situation correctly. Between a rock an a hard place is not a nice position. ;-}

What does 'competely independent' mean?

Properly that anybody that knows how to write a document in Microsoft Office can change the document. So standard software, with a low learning curve. I had some problems getting them to accept to use Adobe. And now that turns out to be not a real option. Learning all the time as Benny Hill said.

If you have been asked to hand over layout decisions, the best is to reproduce your document in XHTML, copy it into a word processor, and let them proceed with their own desing in their proprietary WYSIWYG software.

No the problem is not the layout. They are satisfied with that. They just do not want to be dependent on our company.

Even if they just want to make textual changes, this is probably still be your best bet. You can then relatively easily convert them back to Context (a matter of re-mapping text into Context).

That sounds like a good plan. Converting back is properly not necessary. But it would not hurt if it is possible.

There is a plan I have to produce an easier-for-point-and-clickers interface to collaborate on high quality Context based layouts, but the time hasn't appeared to materialize it yet.

Sounds good. If I could be of help …

If you search through the archives for 'pandoc' you will see that many of us have chosen to abstract ourselves from direct dependence on Context for our document 'coding'. There is a tangible flexibility provided by writing in a visually semantic preformat like Markdown. It helps during the editing stages because it is easy to generate other formats that people are more familiar with (OpenOffice can be converted to Word---then it is a matter of 'backporting' changes to the Context source).

I'll do that.

If they weren't clear about planning to take on this design responsibility--which they should have long before the deadline--than I feel it is the fault of the editors and not the fault of Context. Under such conditions I would have written text for these people in something they understand, like an word processor document (LibreOffice can save as MS Word easily enough).

That is what I mend that in hindsight I should not have used ConTeXt. ;-}

Sorry to hear you are having trouble with this. I know what it is like to face the edge of a deadline.

I'll survive, I always did. :-D I have to thank this list for the help and support. -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/15 Andreas Schneider

At Friday, 15.07.2011 on 10:17 Cecil Westerhof wrote:

...

Properly that anybody that knows how to write a document in Microsoft Office can change the document. So standard software, with a low learning curve. I had some problems getting them to accept to use Adobe. And now that turns out to be not a real option. Learning all the time as Benny Hill said.

That's absolutely not true. MS Office Word has a pretty steep learning curve, people just neglect that and take it for a slightly more complex notepad. It's not, as can be seen be the loads of completely unprofessional done documents ... not consistent styles, no auto generated index, no cross references, no proper bibliography (where it applies), etc. (Hell, I even saw documents where footnotes where done [superscript] and numbered manually.) That's exactly the problem with Word, Writer, etc., that people think it's an easy to use tool, just because it's WYSIWYG. If you don't know what you are doing, you WILL do it wrong, even (or especially) with such an "easy" tool as Word or Writer.

I agree. But that is accepted practice. I find that most times it is more important to generate something fast and then have to use a lot of time to get things changed or right, then to setup things correctly (which takes time) and in the future can change things faster, more efficient en more consistent. In a way I am even afraid that the better pleasing document I generated could be pearls to the swines.

Also with TeXworks it's already pretty WYSIWYG, imho. Change the code, hit "run", and see the result :)

Something to look into then.

...

No the problem is not the layout. They are satisfied with that. They just do not want to be dependent on our company.

They don't have to. Give them ConTeXt, give them TeXworks, give them the source to the documents. Then they can do whatever they want.

I'll give it a try. -- Cecil Westerhof

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011, John Haltiwanger wrote:

PS. For what it is worth, I do not think it would be _too_ hard to create a Context to Markdown translator.

Yes. A while back I did some tests (though I cannot find them now), and had most of the basic ConTeXt-to-markdown working (sections, blockquotes, typing, itemize, footnotes (via endnotes); but no tables and figures). The main idea was to *typeset* the output as you would expect a markdown documnet to be, and then use pdftotext to convert it to text. (Hans had mentioned this as a possible way to convert to HTML during TUG 2009). Aditya

2011/7/19 Cecil Westerhof :

When you find them, I would be interested in them. And maybe I can improve on them.

Pandoc. :-) Best Martin

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:41 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote:

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Martin Schröder wrote:

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2011/7/19 Cecil Westerhof :

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When you find them, I would be interested in them. And maybe I can improve on them.

Pandoc. :-)

Pandoc does not support Context as an input. Nor does it support modern mkIV conventions (\startchapter..\stopchapter; \hyphenatedURL; etc). If anyone knows Haskell, maybe we can submit some patches to Pandoc to create a --mkiv switch for Context?

I don't know haskell, but it sound like a good excuse to start. -- luigi

On 19-7-2011 12:46, luigi scarso wrote:

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:41 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Martin Schröder wrote:

...

2011/7/19 Cecil Westerhof:

...

When you find them, I would be interested in them. And maybe I can improve on them.

Pandoc. :-)

Pandoc does not support Context as an input. Nor does it support modern mkIV conventions (\startchapter..\stopchapter; \hyphenatedURL; etc). If anyone knows Haskell, maybe we can submit some patches to Pandoc to create a --mkiv switch for Context?

I don't know haskell, but it sound like a good excuse to start.

it might be way easier to convert the xml export to pandoc because then users can still define commands (like special sectioning); otherwise you keep extending Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 02:37:33PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 19-7-2011 12:46, luigi scarso wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:41 PM, John Haltiwanger wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:27 AM, Martin Schröder wrote:

...

2011/7/19 Cecil Westerhof:

...

When you find them, I would be interested in them. And maybe I can improve on them.

Pandoc. :-)

Pandoc does not support Context as an input. Nor does it support modern mkIV conventions (\startchapter..\stopchapter; \hyphenatedURL; etc). If anyone knows Haskell, maybe we can submit some patches to Pandoc to create a --mkiv switch for Context?

I don't know haskell, but it sound like a good excuse to start.

it might be way easier to convert the xml export to pandoc because then users can still define commands (like special sectioning); otherwise you keep extending

Indeed, I was about to suggest the same. Handling xml exported by ConTeXt avoids all the complexities of parsing TeX code and avoids the need to only support some predefined subset of it (which is inevitable). Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Egyptian Arab

2011/7/14 Peter Münster

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The problem is that my document already is finished. First I could just deliver a PDF file. Now they want to edit it themselves.

They could install context on their computer...

They could, but they will not. Some facts of life are not easily changed. To be honest I do not think it is a real solution. If I see how much work it was for me to get things done and taking into account that I am a command-line 'freak', you can not expect point and click people to do it. -- Cecil Westerhof

2011/7/14 luigi scarso

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...

...

Is this a problem because of the old Adobe version, or the used fonts? If the latter, which fonts should I use to circumvent this problem?

At the moment I am using: \usetypescript[helvetica] \setupbodyfont[helvetica] because they did not like the default font. It's simple: the host where the adobe pro is run has not the fonts. So the host must install these fonts --- they have a permissive license and they come with the minimals too. This will be true whatever version of Acrobat Pro you will use, even X.

I did not think it had to do with 8, but it is never wrong to ask.

Maybe a dump question, but how do I install the fonts? Or how do I determine a font that is installed with ConTeXt and Adobe? They have about 700 fonts. So maybe there is an usable font that both systems have. The font with the minimals are inside the minimals and they can be query with mtxrun. They are independent and separated from the system. The same for texlive.

I just ran: mtxrun --script fonts --list --info --pattern="*" but only get: mtx-fonts | mtx-fonts | mapping : texmfhome mtx-fonts | fontname: texmfhome mtx-fonts | fullname: texmfhome mtx-fonts | filename: texmfhome.otf mtx-fonts | family : texmfhome mtx-fonts | weight : medium mtx-fonts | style : normal mtx-fonts | width : normal mtx-fonts | variant : normal mtx-fonts | subfont : mtx-fonts | fweight : mtx-fonts | I also ran: mtxrun --script fonts --reload But that does not change the output from: mtxrun --script fonts --list --info --pattern="*" Windows and MacOS have they way to install/query system fonts.

Usually one install a font from context into the system fonts as an ordinary font, at least under Windows.

I work with ConTeXt under Linux and Adobe runs under Windows. What do I need to do to get things working. -- Cecil Westerhof

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 05:09:36PM +0200, Cecil Westerhof wrote:

I work with ConTeXt under Linux and Adobe runs under Windows.

What do I need to do to get things working.

You need to make sure fonts used by ConTeXt are available to Adobe thing, either by 1) installing fonts used by ConTeXt on the Wondows machine, or 2) installing fonts that are installed on the Windows machine for use with ConTeXt. "1" is much easier, from the screenshot you are using TeX Gyre Heors: mtxrun --find-file texgyreheros-regular.otf should tell you where is the font on your ConTeXt installation (well, I knew the filename already, but `mtxrun --script fonts` should help for locating fonts in more general way though I never had success with it). You have to copy the whole family (i.e. italic, bold and bolditalic too) to the Windows machine, and it should make the Adobe thing happy. Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Egyptian Arab