On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 04:40:27PM +0200, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
On 3/31/2023 1:40 PM, Carlos via ntg-context wrote:
so why not use lucida math fonts?
I have. But only with a couple of math fonts. I don't have all these fonts.
It really pays off to buy the official lucida opentype package.
I'll do that eventually.
mkiv lua stats > loaded fonts: 3 files: lucidanewmathitalic.ttf, lucidanewmathsymbol.ttf, lucidabrightregular.otf mkiv lua stats > font engine: otf 3.133, afm 1.513, tfm 1.000, 6 instances, 3 shared in backend, 1 common vectors, 2 common hashes, load time 16.733 seconds
I never heard of these math ones. Did you get these from yandytex (no longer around) or TUG (the official distributer of lucida opentype math)? Anyway, as we fine tune math fonts for sure you get suboptimal results (or even wrong output). Mikael and I put quite a bit of care into lucida opentype math.
I do agree with you in that that loading time is perhaps unacceptable but… ... You ought to specify that must be only after subsequent callbacks. I just tried it with a one liner file of \setupbodyfont[lucida] and (looking around in disbelief) it took a whooping ahem fonts > names > skipped files : 164 fonts > names > duplicate files : 164 fonts > names > total scan time : 16.487 seconds
I have no clue, unless that relates to your font path including some home dir which gets scanned every time for whatever reason and that has tens of thousands of files. I can process the 350+ page luametatex manual twice in these 16 seconds and that one loads quite some (also math) fonts and my laptop is not a fancy 2023 one
before it produced even error messages.
beating me for 2 seconds. Great. And then it restricted my freedom by saying
«Sorry, but I can't typeset math unless various parameters have been set. This is normally done by loading special math fonts into the math family slots. Your font set is lacking at least the parameter mentioned earlier.»
that's pretty clear: you don't load a math font at all, maybe some text font pretending it is math
Sorry, but sorry doesn't cut it here.
it does: no proper math font found so reason to complain
I guess it must have been referring to \strc_formulas_place_number \strc_formulas_flush_number \dostarttagged \t!formulacontent \empty \dotagregisterformula \c_strc_formulas_n \csname \e!stop \formulaparameter \c!alternative \v!formula \endcsname
dunno, that's numbering, not math
Okay. So I tried another file. This time around with only
\starttext $ test $ \stoptext
and then the output message was «Somewhere in the math formula just ended, you used the stated character from an undefined font family. For example, plain TeX doesn't allow \it or \sl in subscripts. Proceed, and I'll try to forget that I needed that character.»
There's not even a fallback to cmr or any other font.
sure, why should it, you want lucida so better quit with an error than kicking in some font; actually cmr math fonts have been obsoleted for way over a decade by latin modern math fonts in 32 bit font engines
I was actually thinking to ask you about that, and by falling back to cmr math font that perhaps would expedite loading time along the way.
Thank you for the info on that last sentence. I didn't know.
There was not even a personalized touch in the output. That message sounds like one of these new GPT-chat features. Dry. When I read that «Proceed, and I'll try to forget it…» part the first thing I thought was: yeah, I'll proceed by removing that file altogether and you'll forget it for sure .
that message is part of 'reference tex the program' for over 40 years so if chatgpt would come up with it, it would do so by having parsed plenty of tex sources instead of inventing it (and when it comes to answering tex related questions chargpt is pretty unreliable, but that's another topic)
But instaed I looked at it and though to myself «how much has changed?!» In plain TeX (I have forgotten it a bit) but I can still type
\par $test$ \end
and it'll produce a dvi file in return.
a lot has changed: opentype math, unicode, more demands but indeed there is nothing against using plain tex with cmr and dvi fonts if that suits well; and plain tex will always be faster than context (or latex) just like pdftex with 8 bit fonts is faster than luatex with 32 bit fonts (with luametatex sitting in between wrt performance) anyway, i bet that if you want to use lucida with plain you also have to do some work and it will complain as loud as luametatex when th efont parameters are not set
At this point, I believe it. Thought about it but didn't even try.
Thank you for your work and all that info Hans.
Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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