[NTG-pdftex] images in formats

Hans Hagen pragma at wxs.nl
Fri Jun 29 09:42:54 CEST 2007


David Kastrup wrote:
> Hans Hagen <pragma at wxs.nl> writes:
> 
>> Frank Küster wrote:
>>> Hans Hagen <pragma at wxs.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I find it annoying how legitimate concerns and existing _standard_ use
>>>>> cases and packages are simply brushed aside or ignored.  While there
>>>>> may be priorities that make it necessary to postpone a proper
>>>>> implementation, it is not because people putting forward their
>>>>> concerns and presenting their use cases are idiots or weirdos that can
>>>>> safely be ignored.
>>>> again, we're talking of pdf data ending up in formats as a result of a
>>>> ref to an xform, not about macro packages; instead of embedding the
>>>> graphic one could use a reference to an external file (using an media
>>>> related annotation) but that's something at the macro level and not
>>>> pdftex internals
>>> I'm not sure I understand you.  Do you mean that macro packages should
>>> use a different way of embedding graphics than they do now?  If I
>>> understand you right, this would require that every existing macro
>>> package for graphics inclusion should be changed, because otherwise it
>>> couldn't be used together with preview-latex or whizzytex.
>> when used with some tool, macro packages may as well know that
>> they're doing that; in that case one can add an extra directive in
>> the preamble
> 
> Hans, no, they may not possibly know that: dumping a format as part of
> a tool like preview-latex or WhizzyTeX or mylatex.ltx _very_ much is
> _not_ known to macro packages: those tools would be pretty pointless
> if they only worked with macro packages that knew about them.

hey, i'm not saying that dumping a format is not feasible, but only that 
  there may be problems along the road that are hard to foresee, for 
instance, when in such a preamble 239 bytes are written to an 
immediately opened file, you' better be sure that this happens again 
when the dumped format is loaded (i.e. reopen the file, goto pos 340, 
hope that the old stuff is still therem and such); same for immediate 
objects and so (ok, that is different for dvi because there pdf related 
things end up in specials);

(btw, you could inject an additional style loading in front of a preview 
run i guess)

>> images are just part of such a story, think of multi pass data
>> needed for initialization, immediate written objects, or opened
>> files (where some kind of appending need to take place when the
>> snapshot format is used, etc; if i had to deal with that in context,
>> i'd make sure that i'd removed all things that can possibly
>> interfere and use a special preview mode (if only not to have users
>> confronted with messy docs that use multipass info for optimization)
> 
> Take a look at mylatex.ltx.  It does exactly that and works with the
> overwhelming majority of LaTeX documents out of the box.

even packages like mylatex probably have to know a bit about what 
they're dealing with and probably assume certain things i.e. they only 
work with macro packages that they know about -)


Hans



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