[NTG-context] body text invades space for notes
Jean-Pierre Delange
adeimantos at free.fr
Wed Mar 4 12:44:11 CET 2020
Dear Pablo,
It seems that we never should say "never" about things which appear all
over the real world. I just go back to a previous assertion you made here.
I agree with you about footnotes which should be placed on the same page
(I quote) :
> Bottom notes are somewhat tricky in ConTeXt. The user expects that
these
> notes (either footnotes, or linenotes) aren’t moved to the next
page. I
> mean, no reader expects to find a full footnote in the next page from
> the one that calls it. (At least, I have never seen that in any book
> read or paged through.)
But, I am afraid to inform you that it is a kind of way of French
printing, especially in Philosophy publishers (which are not known to be
devoted to publish beautiful/strictly edited/... books).
As a kind of sample, see the French translation of Nichomachean Ethics
by Jean Tricot (1983 edition), Jean Vrin publisher, pages 201, 225-226,
245-246, etc. One can notice an effort to reduce the body text in order
to let some space to footnotes. But this effort flaws on several pages ...
A way had have been chosen by publishers : "don't abuse about footnotes
!", which is clearly impossible within academic books in Humanities ...
JP
Le 04/03/2020 à 12:07, Philipp A. a écrit :
> Hi Pablo,
>
> Thank you for the help!
> I’m not using lists on that page … what I do use is a figure with
> location=left, which is probably the culprit, as it ends up pretty
> close to the footnote.
> Is there any interest in fixing this longstanding bug? It’s the only
> feature that’s just consistently broken for me …
>
> Best, Phil
>
> Am Di., 25. Feb. 2020 um 22:15 Uhr schrieb Pablo Rodriguez
> <oinos at gmx.es <mailto:oinos at gmx.es>>:
>
> On 2/18/20 11:17 AM, Philipp A. wrote:
> > For me it’s even worse (in mkiv), a paragraph of body text
> completely
> > overlaps my footnote.
> >
> > Where are the bottom notes placed? In the footer? Or how does it
> work?
> > How to debug it?
>
> Hi Philipp,
>
> I’m afraid that this misbehaviour is caused by the use of lists in the
> same page.
>
> Even not using lists, the space before seems not to be honored when
> using \setupnote[footnote].
>
> Note handling seems to have been improved in both LMTX and MkIV. A
> side-effect of this new handling is the random clash between body and
> notes texts when using lists in the same page.
>
> BTW, foonotes cannot be placed in the footer.
>
> \showframe\showgrid
> \setuppapersize[A9]
> \starttext
> \dorecurse{3}{%
> text\footnote{note}\\}
> \stoptext
>
> Sorry, but I’m afraid that I don’t know any way of debugging it.
>
> Pablo
>
>
> > Am Sa., 14. Dez. 2019 um 19:41 Uhr schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:
> >
> > Dear list,
> >
> > I’m afraid to admit that ConTeXt notes are increasily
> problematic for
> > me. I don’t think this is special to me and I hope we can
> discuss the
> > general issue.
> >
> > Bottom notes are somewhat tricky in ConTeXt. The user
> expects that these
> > notes (either footnotes, or linenotes) aren’t moved to the
> next page. I
> > mean, no reader expects to find a full footnote in the next
> page from
> > the one that calls it. (At least, I have never seen that in
> any book
> > read or paged through.)
> >
> > There may be good reasons for that, but ConTeXt doesn’t
> enable this by
> > default. Both options "split=verystrict" and "scope=text"
> have to be
> > used in "\setupnote".
> >
> > This translated in wrong space before notes when paragraph
> form was
> > used. I was very interested to use these (line)notes for
> critical
> > editions, but sometimes the text run into the notes. I’m
> afraid that
> > left linenotes extremely problematic to be used.
> >
> > With the arrival of LMTX, space before footnotes is more
> problematic
> > than before. No paragraph notes, see the attached sample
> (wrong-6.png).
> > In other cases, ConTeXt seems to ignore totally that the
> page bottom
> > contains footnotes.
> >
> > I cannot provide minimal samples. Consider that if it were
> so easy to
> > reproduce, problably the issue would have been gone long ago.
> >
> > Even when one avoids the problematic bottom partition (which
> I did in
> > that case by removing the "before" option from
> "\setupnote[footnote]"),
> > there is clearly an issue with the footnote having its space
> before
> > remaining blank from the body text (wrong-2.png).
> >
> > My first question is why the bottom notes have problems to
> preserve the
> > space before them (and simultaneously remain in the same
> page where they
> > come from). This applies also for paragraph notes.
> >
> > My second question is what can be improved to achieve what
> may be
> > considered as a basic typographic feature.
> >
> > Sorry for not providing more than output samples. Bear with
> me. I may
> > not be an expert user, but I think I’m a frequent ConTeXt
> user. And I
> > don’t think it is totally wrong to consider this a basic
> feature that
> > needs to be improved.
> >
> > Many thanks for your help in advance,
> >
> > Pablo
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.ousia.tk
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context at ntg.nl <mailto:ntg-context at ntg.nl> /
> http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context at ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
> webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
> archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
> wiki : http://contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/attachments/20200304/8bd0131a/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the ntg-context
mailing list