[NTG-context] bibliography again: “von” and “van”

Jörg Weger joerg73.muc at googlemail.com
Wed Jan 28 06:03:01 CET 2015

As I have already replied to Hans’ post, I don’t mind using the “double 
braces solution” as an easy workaround to distinguish German “vons” and 
Dutch “vans”. But I am not sure if that solution solves the problems 
with French and Spanish name attributes as well.

Greetings Jörg

On 28.01.2015 04:10, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
> I have been arguing with Hans over the proper treatment of "particles",
> in general. The rules vary greatly - here we are looking at a
> comparison between Dutch and German practice. In French, the use often
> depends on history differing before and after the revolution. In
> Spanish, we have other practice.
> One solution is to make the rendering depend on the "language=" bibtex
> field. But this does not work universally. With Hans, we have extended
> the bibtex standard so that names can be explicitly separated, as in:
> author = {particle, lastname, suffix, firstname}
> This allows the author to use a free form for each component without
> resorting to any bibtex trickery (like capitalization or not). How
> these components are handled or rendered is not entirely worked out.
> Indeed, the German practice differs from others. Thus my suggestion of
> the use of the language field (or setting).
> Alan
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:50:44 +0100
> Hans Hagen <pragma at wxs.nl> wrote:
>> On 1/27/2015 8:16 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:
>>> Hi Jörg,
>>> Though, generally, the von, as well as a few others, are nobility
>>> particles in Germany, but not necessarily always noblility
>>> particles, but at times signify the place where a persons ancestor
>>> came from!
>>> Now, in the case Goethe you are right that he was ennobled.
>>> Therefore the von is not truly part of his name. He should be
>>> listed as you rightly mentioned under Goethe and not "von Goethe“.
>>> It is impossible for a bibliographic system to handle this, so
>>> there is no switch for it!
>> you can try to wrap thing that belong together in { } ... it might
>> work
>>> So, it is up to the author of a text to set up his entries
>>> properly, by putting the von in the right part of the name field.
>> indeed, not all can be catched in a poorly specified format
>> btw, context loads the bib data in memory and fields of type author
>> get split into multiple authors and each is split into parts; most
>> magic is under our own control so we can always add variants if
>> needed (maybe some prefix that indicates a german name or so) but
>> anyway this whole von business is on our agenda
>> Hans
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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