[NTG-context] bibliography again: “von” and “van”

Jörg Weger joerg73.muc at googlemail.com
Tue Jan 27 21:11:03 CET 2015


Hi Keith,

how would you “set up an entry properly” in a BibTeX file where you have 
only one field for author/editor (serious question!)? I normally put the 
names uninverted but inverting Goethe’s name in the BibTeX file didn’t 
change anything. As far as I understood ConTeXt can handle inverted and 
uninverted names in BibTeX name fields equally well. There is something 
in the default mechanism that interpretes the “von” as part of the 
surname. What I was proposing was a way to manually switch to another 
mode where the “von” is treated as an attribute on a by-case-base–just 
like you can switch between “authoryear” and “authoryears” as I learned 
today.

Greetings Jörg




On 27.01.2015 20:16, Keith Schultz wrote:
> Hi Jörg,
>
> Though, generally, the von, as well as a few others, are nobility particles in Germany, but not necessarily always
> noblility particles, but at times signify the place where a persons ancestor came from!
>
> Now, in the case Goethe you are right that he was ennobled. Therefore the von is not truly part of his name.
> He should be listed as you rightly mentioned under Goethe and not "von Goethe“.
>
> It is impossible for a bibliographic system to handle this, so there is no switch for it!
>
> So, it is up to the author of a text to set up his entries properly, by putting the von in the right part of the name field.
>
> regards
> 	Keith
>> Am 27.01.2015 um 19:20 schrieb Jörg Weger <joerg73.muc at googlemail.com>:
>>
>> The default way to diplay (inverted) names with “von” and “van” is “von Goethe” and “van Halen” in in-text references and “von Goethe, Johann Wolfgang” and “van Halen, Edward”. The problem with this is that while AFAIK the Dutch “van Halen” means that one of his ancestors came ”from” a place/city called “Halen” in German names the “von” is always a sign of nobility. Even long before monarchy and nobility was abolished in Germany by the revolution of 1919 you would not have talked about “von Goethe” but simply “Goethe”–so in a reference it would be “(Goethe 1774)” and “Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von” in the publications list, but still “(van Halen 1984)” and “van Halen, Edward”. It would be nice if you could switch between two modes while invoking the citation. I have not yet discovered where this order is defined.
>>
>
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