[NTG-context] A few questions (mostly about fonts)

Jeff Smith ascarel at gmail.com
Fri Aug 18 20:22:38 CEST 2006

Hi again,

On 8/18/06, Mojca Miklavec <mojca.miklavec.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> You have to ask other French guys why they decided to put
>    \c!leftquote=\leftguillemot,
>    \c!rightquote=\rightguillemot,
> instead of single guillemots there (well, I don't know which ones are
> the once that should be used by default).

I admit this can get confusing here. Remember that the norm in French
is always to use double quotes of either kind: « » or " ", preferably
the former. The single quote is rarely used, if at all, and is
associated (rightly, I would think) with the English language.

But *I* need single quotes anyway (to be used inside « », that is)
because it's part of our typography habits here, for reasons I don't
really know (nor do my colleagues, and the boss is away today --
perhaps because we're in Canada after all).

What you and Hans have told me to do works quite well. I do have my
single quotes (' ') within my guillemets (« ») now, while I use only
one command (\quotation) all throughout. It's the hierarchy that
decides what to display. Marvelous.

But the matter is still not completely solved. Am I getting annoying
here? I hope not. :-( I know I'm being picky... But here I'm convinced
it's really the last glitch!

What the system does with the guillemets is to add some spacing around
the symbols. This is quite correct and corresponds to the typographic
norm in French. « » always have some spacing between them and the
quoted text. So it's never «quote», but always « quote ».

However, with what you and Has told me to do, by compiling this...

\quotation{This quote has \quotation{quotes} in it.}

... I get ...

« This quote has ' quotes ' in it. »

The spacing is retained for the single quotes. But it shouldn't be --
this sort of spacing in French is used with guillemets, but never with
single quotes (') or double quotes ("). At the very least, I can
confirm this is the French Canadian norm, which I want to use. So,
from what I understand,  the system reacts with the quote as it is
instructed to do with French guillemets -- add the spacing -- but only
its appearance is changed. I'm afraid it's not enough. The result I
want is...

« This quote has 'quotes' in it. »

Am I asking too much here? Typographic norms across languages can vary
a lot, I'm afraid.

As to XeTeX, don't worry anymore. I've managed to make it work, with
my system fonts. This is sweet indeed! I also edited my ScITE config
to add the --xtx parameter, and everything works. Thank you so much!

Jeff Smith

> Perhaps it can be changed, but "everyone" (from the French guys on the
> list) has to agree on that. In any case: if you want to use english
> quotes, you have to add those three lines mentioned above in any case.
> (Now I understand your question better: you can use \quote{...}
> instead of \quotation{...} to get single quotes, but French wasn't
> "configured properly", so you didn't get any single quotes with \quote
> either.)

> > Now, about the XeTeX installation. A few things didn't go as smoothly
> > as expected. Running fc-cache (with the appropriate parameters, of
> > course) returned this:
> >
> > Fontconfig error: Cannot load default config file
> > fc-cache: "": skipping, no such directory
> > ret = 0
> > fc-cache: succeeded
> Did you add these lines to setuptex.bat?
> set FONTCONFIG_FILE=fonts.conf
> set PKGCACHEDIR=%TEXMFMAIN%\fonts\cache
> I have no idea how/when you configure the installation. I have created
> a mytex.bat file with the content (in a single line, folders depend on
> your local structure):
> C:\Programs\context\usr\local\context\tex\setuptex.bat
> C:\Programs\context\usr\local\context\tex
> And when I want to use it, I have to run "mytex" (otherwise MikTeX is used).
> Another option is to go to control
> panel->system->advanced->environmental variables (I'm guessing now, I
> have no WIndows here) and then put the three variables there. Just
> create a new variable called "FONTCONFIG_FILE" with content
> "fonts.conf" and similar for the other two (I don't know if you can
> use % or if you have to provide the full path).
> After you do that you have to launch a new "cmd" (the old one won't
> see the new encvironmental variables).
> The message appears because the environment is not set up properly,
> but if you added those lines to setuptex.bat and if they weren't
> found, I'm affraid that something else will fail as well. The fact
> that the formats were not placed properly either (if you tried to
> create them) makes me suspect exactly the same thing.
> See if http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Windows_Installation can help you
> understand some problems better (and feel free to correct it/suggest
> improvements).
> > And compiling the document returned the following:
> > ...
> > This is XeTeX, Version 3.141592-2.2-0.995 (Web2C 7.5.5)
> >  \write18 enabled.
> >  (WARNING: translate-file "natural.tcx" ignored)
> > kpathsea: Running mktexfmt cont-en.fmt
> > I can't find the format file `cont-en.fmt'!
> > TeXExec | runtime: 0.321
> Did you run
>    texexec --xtx --make --all
> One reason may be that the formats were generated and not moved to the
> proper folder. (take a look if there were some files like cont-en.fmt
> generated in the folder where you executed texexec --xtx --make --all.
> If yes, then something is not configured properly.)
> > By the way, I'm still unsure about what sort of resulting file this
> > compiling is supposed to give, and how this integrates with my normal
> > way of building a PDF output with SciTE.
> The result of basic stuff should be the same, but you will be able to
> use IPA for example, like I posted in the first mail already:
> \definetypeface[gentium][rm][Xserif][Gentium]
> \setupbodyfont[gentium,12pt]
> \starttext
> ɸ β f v θ ð s z ʃ ʒ ʂ ʐ ç ʝ
> \stoptext
> If you add a line (I'm guessing a bit)
> % tex=xetex
> at the top of the file, your file will be compiled with XeTeX in any
> case. But you can probably also configure SciTE to call texexec with
> the switch "--xtx" by default. (I don't use SciTE, so someone else
> will have to help you with that).
> Mojca
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