Margin terminology -- badly documented, undocumented, or misdocumented
Hi all. I am trying to understand the terminology for the \definelayout and \setuplayout commands. Unfortunately the documentation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layoutdoesn't correspond to the actual output I get. Nor does the 'documentation' at http://getfo.org/context_xml/page3.html , which the first page recommends. More, the two pages seem pretty contradictory. Consider my situation: I'm trying to set up an A4 page with the following margins (I use the term margin to mean the space from the edge of the physical paper to the edge of the body text area): top: 2.97cm bottom: 2.97cm left: 2.1cm right: 2.1cm For the moment, I don't care at all about header and footer space, nor notes in the margins; I'm just trying to get the above margins. However, with all conceivable combinations of commands at both of those pages, I've been unable to set anything like this up. Based on the getfo.org page, I should be able to set up these left and right margins with: backspace=2.1cm, cutspace=2.1cm But, looking at the result, and also with using \showlayout (which for some reason, AFAICS, generates four identical pages at the beginning of the document), this quite obviously doesn't do what getfo.org claims. I have also tried setting everything to 0cm with the exception of any random one of the measurements that go into making a margin, which I would set to 2.1cm. No avail here, either. Can someone give me the configuration I would need for the above required margins? Even better, can someone give me the definitive definitions of all the terms used in http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout, algebraically rather than as ambiguous tables of "Remarks"? This would help a bunch. Many thanks, James Fisher
On 25-2-2010 5:39, James Fisher wrote:
Hi all.
I am trying to understand the terminology for the \definelayout and \setuplayout commands. Unfortunately the documentation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layoutdoesn't correspond to the actual output I get. Nor does the 'documentation' at http://getfo.org/context_xml/page3.html , which the first page recommends. More, the two pages seem pretty contradictory.
Consider my situation: I'm trying to set up an A4 page with the following margins (I use the term margin to mean the space from the edge of the physical paper to the edge of the body text area):
top: 2.97cm bottom: 2.97cm left: 2.1cm right: 2.1cm
For the moment, I don't care at all about header and footer space, nor notes in the margins; I'm just trying to get the above margins. However, with all conceivable combinations of commands at both of those pages, I've been unable to set anything like this up.
Based on the getfo.org page, I should be able to set up these left and right margins with:
\setuplayout [backspace=2.1cm, cutspace=2.1cm, width=middle, topspace=2.97cm, bottomspace=2.97cm, height=middle] \showframe \starttext \input tufte \stoptext ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 11:23:04 +0100
Hans Hagen
On 25-2-2010 5:39, James Fisher wrote:
Hi all.
I am trying to understand the terminology for the \definelayout and \setuplayout commands. Unfortunately the documentation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layoutdoesn't correspond to the actual output I get. Nor does the 'documentation' at http://getfo.org/context_xml/page3.html , which the first page recommends. More, the two pages seem pretty contradictory.
Consider my situation: I'm trying to set up an A4 page with the following margins (I use the term margin to mean the space from the edge of the physical paper to the edge of the body text area):
top: 2.97cm bottom: 2.97cm left: 2.1cm right: 2.1cm
For the moment, I don't care at all about header and footer space, nor notes in the margins; I'm just trying to get the above margins. However, with all conceivable combinations of commands at both of those pages, I've been unable to set anything like this up.
Based on the getfo.org page, I should be able to set up these left and right margins with:
\setuplayout [backspace=2.1cm, cutspace=2.1cm, width=middle, topspace=2.97cm, bottomspace=2.97cm, height=middle]
\showframe
\starttext
\input tufte
\showlayout
\stoptext
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
-- René Bastian www.pythoneon.org www.musiques-rb.org
Hi Hans,
Thanks for the reply -- and sorry for the rather grumpy way in which I posed
the question. The problem for me was this mysterious "width=middle",
"height=middle" -- this is fairly undocumented at
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout . There is a mention of
"width=middle", but it's just followed by some code, most of which seems to
be irrelevant ("if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace; end"), and
there is no mention of "height=middle". I would be more than willing to
document this myself, but what is it that "width=middle" actually *does*?
And what does "middle" actually *mean* -- the middle of *what*?
James
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Hans Hagen
On 25-2-2010 5:39, James Fisher wrote:
Hi all.
I am trying to understand the terminology for the \definelayout and \setuplayout commands. Unfortunately the documentation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layoutdoesn'thttp://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layoutdoesn%27tcorrespond to the actual
output I get. Nor does the 'documentation' at http://getfo.org/context_xml/page3.html , which the first page recommends. More, the two pages seem pretty contradictory.
Consider my situation: I'm trying to set up an A4 page with the following margins (I use the term margin to mean the space from the edge of the physical paper to the edge of the body text area):
top: 2.97cm bottom: 2.97cm left: 2.1cm right: 2.1cm
For the moment, I don't care at all about header and footer space, nor notes in the margins; I'm just trying to get the above margins. However, with all conceivable combinations of commands at both of those pages, I've been unable to set anything like this up.
Based on the getfo.org page, I should be able to set up these left and right margins with:
\setuplayout [backspace=2.1cm, cutspace=2.1cm, width=middle, topspace=2.97cm, bottomspace=2.97cm, height=middle]
\showframe
\starttext
\input tufte
\stoptext
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:17 PM, James Fisher
document this myself, but what is it that "width=middle" actually *does*? I suppose if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace end makeupwidth = paperwidth- backspace -cutspace (as wiki says, from page-lay.mkiv, 2009-11-17 - 23:59)
(btw I'm the author of the irrelevant code ) -- luigi
On 25-2-2010 21:17, James Fisher wrote:
Hi Hans,
Thanks for the reply -- and sorry for the rather grumpy way in which I posed the question. The problem for me was this mysterious "width=middle", "height=middle" -- this is fairly undocumented at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout . There is a mention of "width=middle", but it's just followed by some code, most of which seems to be irrelevant ("if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace; end"), and there is no mention of "height=middle". I would be more than willing to document this myself, but what is it that "width=middle" actually *does*? And what does "middle" actually *mean* -- the middle of *what*?
just the space between back- and cutspace (there's also fit, which takes edges into account as they play a role in interactive documents) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
That makes sense.
The main thing confusing me on contextgarden is:
if cutspace == 0pt then
cutspace = backspace
end
Which I would guess is meant to allow you to just specify backspace if you
want symmetrical margins; but what if we want a 0pt cutspace?
A minor other thing confusing me is the terminology; mainly 'cut' and
'back'. Are these ConTeXt-specific terms or are they found elsewhere?
'Back' would make more sense to me as 'binding' or 'spine', and the edge
referred to as 'cut' is referred to in
Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book#Book_manufacturing_in_the_modern_worldas
the 'fore-edge'.
James
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Hans Hagen
On 25-2-2010 21:17, James Fisher wrote:
Hi Hans,
Thanks for the reply -- and sorry for the rather grumpy way in which I posed the question. The problem for me was this mysterious "width=middle", "height=middle" -- this is fairly undocumented at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout . There is a mention of "width=middle", but it's just followed by some code, most of which seems to be irrelevant ("if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace; end"), and there is no mention of "height=middle". I would be more than willing to document this myself, but what is it that "width=middle" actually *does*? And what does "middle" actually *mean* -- the middle of *what*?
just the space between back- and cutspace
(there's also fit, which takes edges into account as they play a role in interactive documents)
Hans
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Am 02.03.10 22:33, schrieb James Fisher:
That makes sense.
The main thing confusing me on contextgarden is:
if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace end
Which I would guess is meant to allow you to just specify backspace if you want symmetrical margins; but what if we want a 0pt cutspace? Then use absolute values for 'backspace' and 'width'.
Wolfgang
Fairy muff! James On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 9:42 PM, Wolfgang Schuster < schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:
Am 02.03.10 22:33, schrieb James Fisher:
That makes sense.
The main thing confusing me on contextgarden is:
if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace end
Which I would guess is meant to allow you to just specify backspace if you want symmetrical margins; but what if we want a 0pt cutspace?
Then use absolute values for 'backspace' and 'width'.
Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 10:33 PM, James Fisher
That makes sense.
The main thing confusing me on contextgarden is:
if cutspace == 0pt then cutspace = backspace end
Which I would guess is meant to allow you to just specify backspace if you want symmetrical margins; but what if we want a 0pt cutspace?
A minor other thing confusing me is the terminology; mainly 'cut' and 'back'. Are these ConTeXt-specific terms or are they found elsewhere?
see page-lay.mkiv -- luigi
On 2-3-2010 22:33, James Fisher wrote:
A minor other thing confusing me is the terminology; mainly 'cut' and 'back'. Are these ConTeXt-specific terms or are they found elsewhere? 'Back' would make more sense to me as 'binding' or 'spine', and the edge referred to as 'cut' is referred to in Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book#Book_manufacturing_in_the_modern_worldas the 'fore-edge'.
there are a few more 'not so good translations' ... actually, they were translated by native speakers so we hav eto liv ewith them (for some we can consider synonyms but not now) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
participants (5)
-
Hans Hagen -
James Fisher -
luigi scarso -
R. Bastian -
Wolfgang Schuster