Still confused about \setuplayout

Alan Stone

26 Aug 2008 26 Aug '08

6:29 p.m.

Hi, Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example... \setuppapersize[S6][S6] \showframe \showsetups \setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt] \starttext testing \stoptext How come the showframe and showsetups printouts don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ? Thanks, Alan

Show replies by date

Aditya Mahajan

26 Aug 26 Aug

11:17 a.m.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Alan Stone wrote:

...

Hi,

Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt]

\starttext testing \stoptext

How come the showframe and showsetups printouts don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted \setuppapersize[S6][S6] \showframe \showsetups \setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt] \starttext testing \stoptext Aditya

Alan Stone

27 Aug 27 Aug

9:23 a.m.

...

...
Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight?

1. http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20080812.135630.04ad74e5.en.html 2. From observation: see \showsetups output (right column) This part of ConTeXt and/or the instructional resources somehow got so polluted with incorrect parameters and/or information, a *serious* cleanup would be most welcome so people don't waste their time figuring out which of the basic stuff really works. Does somebody have a comprehensive overview of the active \setuplayout parameters and their meaning, i.e. where the incorrect parameters and information have been filtered out ? That would be most helpful. Thanks on beforehand. Best, Alan On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Alan Stone wrote:

...
Hi,

Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt]

\starttext testing \stoptext

How come the showframe and showsetups printouts don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext testing \stoptext

Aditya ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alan Stone

1:22 p.m.

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext testing \stoptext

Aditya

Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings. What's missing to make this work ? Best, Alan

Hans Hagen

1:27 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...
Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

move the previous line

...

...
\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext

to here

...

...
testing \stoptext

Aditya

Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

What's missing to make this work ?

Best, Alan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alan Stone

2:36 p.m.

Going back to my example (see below)... Same observations, same questions. Alan \setuppapersize[S6][S6] \setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt] \showframe \showsetups \starttext testing \stoptext On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

Alan Stone wrote:

...
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...
Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

move the previous line

...
...
\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext

to here

...
...
testing \stoptext

Aditya

Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

What's missing to make this work ?

Best, Alan

Hans Hagen

2:41 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt,

top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

...

leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt]

\showframe \showsetups

\starttext testing \stoptext

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...
Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups move the previous line

...
...
\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext to here

...
...
testing \stoptext

Aditya

Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

What's missing to make this work ?

Best, Alan

------------------------------------------------------------------------

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alan Stone

3:31 p.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

Alan Stone wrote:

...
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt,

top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

Thanks Hans. - \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be utmost welcome - \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace - which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ? Alan

...

...
leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt]

\showframe \showsetups

\starttext testing \stoptext

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:17 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...
Where did you see topheight, headerheight, footerheight, and bottomheight? Perhaps you wanted

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups move the previous line

...
...
\setuplayout[topspace=15pt, header=15pt, height=middle, footer=15pt, bottomspace=15pt, backspace=0pt, width=middle, cutspace=180pt]

\starttext to here

...
...
testing \stoptext

Aditya

Although this isn't what I want, you'll notice none of the \showsetups output values correspond to the \setuplayout settings.

What's missing to make this work ?

Best, Alan

Hans Hagen

3:36 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

Thanks Hans.

- \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be utmost welcome

well, one can roll out his/her own -)

...

- \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace

- which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?

leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Alan Stone

4:05 p.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

Alan Stone wrote:

...
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

Thanks Hans.

- \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be utmost welcome

well, one can roll out his/her own -)

I guess as long as one knows to what each parameter corresponds. ;O) Nevertheless, please say more about that.

...

...
- which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ?

...
- \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace

leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance)

left/rightedgedistance is documented elsewhere as being between left/rightedge and left/rightmargin. CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ? Alan

Hans Hagen

4:47 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 2:41 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
Alan Stone wrote:

...
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

Alan

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, top,header,footer,bottom etc no height/width appended

Thanks Hans.

- \showsetups output contains a lot of junk, a thorough cleaning would be utmost welcome well, one can roll out his/her own -)

I guess as long as one knows to what each parameter corresponds. ;O)

Nevertheless, please say more about that.

...
...
- which \setuplayout parameters enable a space/blank area between the left/right page border and the left/right of leftedge/rightedge ? - \showframe doesn't draw topspace and bottomspace leftedgedistance (which defaults to edgedistance)

left/rightedgedistance is documented elsewhere as being between left/rightedge and left/rightmargin.

indeed, you have to see these dimensions outwards (so, margindistance, margin, edgedistance, edge ... these extend into the backspace or cutspace depending on left/right) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Alan Stone

5:12 p.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 4:47 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

indeed, you have to see these dimensions outwards (so, margindistance, margin, edgedistance, edge ... these extend into the backspace or cutspace depending on left/right)

Ahaa. I'm beginning to understand. Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most corresponding ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual ) Shows a page layout in half size http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf Thanks all, Alan

Patrick Gundlach

5:53 p.m.

Hi,

...

Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most corresponding ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )

Shows a page layout in half size http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

made with http://modules.contextgarden.net/t-layout Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Alan Stone

28 Aug 28 Aug

10:15 a.m.

Do you, or somebody else, know of any such other basic and precious documents which should be included in the main manual, instead of (for whatever reason) hidden in some subdomain or subdirectory ? Best, Alan On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

Hi,

...
Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most corresponding ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )

Shows a page layout in half size http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

made with

http://modules.contextgarden.net/t-layout

Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Yue Wang

10:34 a.m.

There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~ On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:15 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

...

Do you, or somebody else, know of any such other basic and precious documents which should be included in the main manual, instead of (for whatever reason) hidden in some subdomain or subdirectory ?

Best, Alan On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:53 PM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...
Hi,

...
Meanwhile found the underneath document, which seems to be the most corresponding ( though incomplete compared to pg 24 of the main manual )

Shows a page layout in half size http://levana.de/context/layout/testlay.pdf

made with

http://modules.contextgarden.net/t-layout

Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Arthur Reutenauer

11:54 a.m.

...

There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~

I concur. This would be immensely more useful than contributing huge threads and smart-arse remarks to this mailing-list (I especially like the irony of your -- Alan's -- complaints about "wasting [your] precious time"). Arthur

Alan Stone

4:03 p.m.

Hi Arthur, "I would sooner have you hate me for telling the truth than adore me for telling lies." - Pietro Aretino As for the invitation to the reference project, thanks a lot. I have some work to finish first, then will have some free time to gladly contribute. Wishing you a nice day ( no irony ;O) Best, Alan On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Arthur Reutenauer < arthur.reutenauer@normalesup.org> wrote:

...

...
There is a context reference project, you can help to document it~

I concur. This would be immensely more useful than contributing huge threads and smart-arse remarks to this mailing-list (I especially like the irony of your -- Alan's -- complaints about "wasting [your] precious time").

Arthur

Taco Hoekwater

27 Aug 27 Aug

5:07 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ?

From left to right, you have: (left)edge (left)edgedistance (left)margin (left)margindistance width (right)margindistance (right)margin (right)edgedistance (right)edge The location of all this on the paper is defined by backspace, which gives the distance between the appropriate (left or right) edge of the text width and the physical paper edge. Similar logic applies in the vertical direction. \showlayout will give the current values and keys (put it after \starttext, it generates four pages of typeset information). I am somewhat confused myself as to why this is generally considered to be so confusing. In vertical mode, it goes like this top topdistance header headerdistance textheight footerdistance footer bottomdistance bottom "height" sets up the dimension that controls the inner five areas (header ... footer). "topspace" is the distance between the vertical top edge of the paper and the top of "header". You can put \showlayout after \starttext. It will generate four pages of settings (because of double-sided ness). Best wishes, Taco

Alan Stone

5:42 p.m.

Thanks Taco.

...

I am somewhat confused myself as to why this is generally considered to be so confusing.

What's most confusing are the: - wiki layout explanation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout - \showsetups output - excursion manual, table 33.2 page 74 - main manual page 24 - \setuplayout texshow page each one listing the same thing similarly or differently using either arguments, parameters and/or variables, the latter of which for the most have nothing to do with the \setuplayout arguments ( or are these parameters, or variables ? ) Best, Alan On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:07 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

...

Alan Stone wrote:

...
CanItBeAnyMoreConfusingText ?

From left to right, you have:

(left)edge (left)edgedistance (left)margin (left)margindistance width (right)margindistance (right)margin (right)edgedistance (right)edge

The location of all this on the paper is defined by backspace, which gives the distance between the appropriate (left or right) edge of the text width and the physical paper edge.

Similar logic applies in the vertical direction. \showlayout will give the current values and keys (put it after \starttext, it generates four pages of typeset information). I am somewhat confused myself as to why this is generally considered to be so confusing.

In vertical mode, it goes like this

top topdistance header headerdistance textheight footerdistance footer bottomdistance bottom

"height" sets up the dimension that controls the inner five areas (header ... footer). "topspace" is the distance between the vertical top edge of the paper and the top of "header".

You can put \showlayout after \starttext. It will generate four pages of settings (because of double-sided ness).

Best wishes, Taco

Taco Hoekwater

6:15 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

Thanks Taco.

...
I am somewhat confused myself as to why this is generally considered to be so confusing.

What's most confusing are the:

Ok, that helped make me understand.

...

- wiki layout explanation at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Layout

This is indeed confusing (and probably based on excursion)

...

- \showsetups output

The \setuplayout parameters are in column one, the query-ing macros are in column four. These are correct.

...

- excursion manual, table 33.2 page 74

That table is simply wrong, and probably the cause of all of the confusion (I never used excursion myself). I assume the goal of this table is that column 1 matches \setuplayout's column 1 output; it doesn't.

...

- main manual page 24 - \setuplayout texshow page

These two are correct (plus/minus a few small diffs due to later extensions). Conclusion: both excursion and the wiki need updating. Best wishes, Taco

Alan Stone

6:37 p.m.

...

...
- \showsetups output

The \setuplayout parameters are in column one, the query-ing macros are in column four. These are correct.

Good to finally know what corresponds to what. It might be useful to put a label mentioning these at the top of both columns. What do you mean by "query-ing macros" Taco ? Best, Alan

Taco Hoekwater

6:47 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

...
...
- \showsetups output The \setuplayout parameters are in column one, the query-ing macros are in column four. These are correct.

Good to finally know what corresponds to what. It might be useful to put a label mentioning these at the top of both columns.

What do you mean by "query-ing macros" Taco ?

You can do e.g. \externalfigure[cow][width=\textwidth] where \textwidth resolves to the current value of 'textwidth', etc. The commands allow you to query values, while \setuplayout sets values. Best wishes, Taco

Taco Hoekwater

3:09 p.m.

Alan Stone wrote:

...

Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

The names and values reported by showsetups are not 1-to-1 to the arguments of \setuplayout. If you want to know what you can use in \setuplayout, use any of the manuals, or texshow: http://texshow.contextgarden.net/command/detail/221 That said, it is a little confusing that the table from \showsetups doesn't match up ... Taco

Alan Stone

3:28 p.m.

...

That said, it is a little confusing that the table from \showsetups doesn't match up ...

A little ??? Alan On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

...

Alan Stone wrote:

...
Going back to my example (see below)...

Same observations, same questions.

The names and values reported by showsetups are not 1-to-1 to the arguments of \setuplayout. If you want to know what you can use in \setuplayout, use any of the manuals, or texshow:

http://texshow.contextgarden.net/command/detail/221

That said, it is a little confusing that the table from \showsetups doesn't match up ...

Taco

Peter Rolf

26 Aug 26 Aug

6:54 p.m.

Alan Stone schrieb:

...

Hi,

Taking S6 = 600pt wide x 450pt heigh for example...

\setuppapersize[S6][S6]

\showframe \showsetups

\setuplayout[topheight=15pt, headerheight=15pt, footerheight=15pt, bottomheight=15pt, leftedgewidth=0pt, leftmarginwidth=0pt, rightmarginwidth=0pt, rightedgewidth=180pt]

\starttext testing \stoptext

How come the showframe and showsetups printouts don't correspond to the \setuplayout settings ?

I assume that you use an Adobe product for printing. In the print dialog there is a menulist named 'Page Scaling'. Be sure that 'None' is selected there. Best wishes, Peter

...

Thanks, Alan ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alan Stone

7:07 p.m.

Hi Peter, I meant the showframe and showsetups displays on the pdf document itself, not the document paper printout. Best, Alan

Peter Rolf

8:43 p.m.

Alan Stone schrieb:

...

Hi Peter,

I meant the showframe and showsetups displays on the pdf document itself, not the document paper printout.

oeps, sorry :) you simply use some wrong parameter here (names of internal dimensions). e.g. use 'footer=15pt' instead of 'footerheight=15pt'. best wishes, peter

...

Best, Alan ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

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participants (8)

Aditya Mahajan
Alan Stone
Arthur Reutenauer
Hans Hagen
Patrick Gundlach
Peter Rolf
Taco Hoekwater
Yue Wang

Still confused about \setuplayout

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