Hello! I've been working on a Serbian book and I had to transliterate it from cyrillic to latin. There's been some nice improvement in transliteration, and I would like to propose a small change. One of the peculiarities that current transliteration mechanisms (both internal one and the 3rd party module from Philipp Gesang) don't process is that Љ, Њ and Џ are transliterated to Lj, Nj and Dž in normal words that start the sentence, or in names that normally start with a capital letter, but in titles written in all capitals they should be transliterated to LJ, NJ and DŽ. So, the quick solution was to update the current mapping vector and add another one (that is attached) that maps cyrillic capitals to LJ, NJ and DŽ and set the correct 30 letters used in Serbian language. It requires a bit more manual work to set the correct mapping for all capitals text, but it works. I have also merged the Serbian hyphenation patterns, so there is no need to switch the language in order to have hyphenation in transliterated text. That was possible because cyrillic and latin scripts use different code points, and there are no conflicts in patterns. So I suggest merging the patterns for Serbian cyrillic and latin. There is another issue if one wants to use a dropcap and the rest of that first word, and several following words are to be typeset in small caps. If that first letter is Љ (or other two letters that transliterate as digraphs), then the second letter of the digraph is not typeset in small caps because it gets injected before the group that turns on small caps. For example: \placeinitial Љ{\sc уди нису знали} but this is quite a special case... Regards, Ivan
On 2/3/2022 8:15 PM, Ivan Pešić via ntg-context wrote:
Hello! I've been working on a Serbian book and I had to transliterate it from cyrillic to latin. There's been some nice improvement in transliteration, and I would like to propose a small change. One of the peculiarities that current transliteration mechanisms (both internal one and the 3rd party module from Philipp Gesang) don't process is that Љ, Њ and Џ are transliterated to Lj, Nj and Dž in normal words that start the sentence, or in names that normally start with a capital letter, but in titles written in all capitals they should be transliterated to LJ, NJ and DŽ. So, the quick solution was to update the current mapping vector and add another one (that is attached) that maps cyrillic capitals to LJ, NJ and DŽ and set the correct 30 letters used in Serbian language. It requires a bit more manual work to set the correct mapping for all capitals text, but it works. I have also merged the Serbian hyphenation patterns, so there is no need to switch the language in order to have hyphenation in transliterated text. That was possible because cyrillic and latin scripts use different code points, and there are no conflicts in patterns. So I suggest merging the patterns for Serbian cyrillic and latin.
I'd like to hear Arthur / Mojca on that .... we can of course load them both but if that is an upstream merge i'll wait for that you can actually map multiple to multiple in the tranmsliteration tables ["foo"] = "oof" and such and there is in the next version also an exception mechanism that permits clone a transliteration and add exceptions
There is another issue if one wants to use a dropcap and the rest of that first word, and several following words are to be typeset in small caps. If that first letter is Љ (or other two letters that transliterate as digraphs), then the second letter of the digraph is not typeset in small caps because it gets injected before the group that turns on small caps. For example:
\placeinitial Љ{\sc уди нису знали}
but this is quite a special case... you can use \settransliteration{name} locally so as part of a style specification (there is also \resettransliteration)
the next upload has some more that Sreeram is currently documenting on the wiki Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 at 21:41, Hans Hagen wrote:
I have also merged the Serbian hyphenation patterns, so there is no need to switch the language in order to have hyphenation in transliterated text. That was possible because cyrillic and latin scripts use different code points, and there are no conflicts in patterns. So I suggest merging the patterns for Serbian cyrillic and latin.
I'd like to hear Arthur / Mojca on that .... we can of course load them both but if that is an upstream merge i'll wait for that
Yes, loading both patterns at once is definitely the correct approach. That's what the rest of the TeX world already does (at least LuaTeX and XeTeX; pdfTeX not of course), see https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/blob/master/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/... We have two sets of Cyrillic patterns (and several Latin ones as well), so composing a single file was a bit of a (somewhat political) challenge. Now at least in theory the users are free to choose which of the two sets of patterns they want. I never checked what ConTeXt was doing with the Serbian patterns. Personally I would suggest taking hyph-sh-cyrl.pat.txt and hyph-sh-latn.pat.txt. Mojca
On 2/3/2022 10:01 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2022 at 21:41, Hans Hagen wrote:
I have also merged the Serbian hyphenation patterns, so there is no need to switch the language in order to have hyphenation in transliterated text. That was possible because cyrillic and latin scripts use different code points, and there are no conflicts in patterns. So I suggest merging the patterns for Serbian cyrillic and latin.
I'd like to hear Arthur / Mojca on that .... we can of course load them both but if that is an upstream merge i'll wait for that
Yes, loading both patterns at once is definitely the correct approach. That's what the rest of the TeX world already does (at least LuaTeX and XeTeX; pdfTeX not of course), see https://github.com/hyphenation/tex-hyphen/blob/master/hyph-utf8/tex/generic/...
We have two sets of Cyrillic patterns (and several Latin ones as well), so composing a single file was a bit of a (somewhat political) challenge. Now at least in theory the users are free to choose which of the two sets of patterns they want.
I never checked what ConTeXt was doing with the Serbian patterns. Personally I would suggest taking hyph-sh-cyrl.pat.txt and hyph-sh-latn.pat.txt. we currently do this:
{ "sr", "hyph-sr", "serbian", false, { "hyph-sr-cyrl", "hyph-sr-latn" }, }, so you suggest to replace that by the "sh" variants Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
participants (3)
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Hans Hagen
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Ivan Pešić
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Mojca Miklavec