On 10/13/2016 10:40 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:

Pablo Rodriguez writes:

Hello Pablo,

...

since ConTeXt can handle XML natively, how about converting AsciiDoc to an XML presentation and then compiling the XML file with ConTeXt?

I must admit I was not aware of that.

Hi Gour, this feature makes ConTeXt much superior than LaTeX, but not all TeX users are aware of this jewel.

AsciiDoc can convert to e.g. DocBook(5), but I wonder if/how ConTeXt could handle it?

Sure it can handle it, but I wonder whether this would make sense. (I mean, does DocBook handle slides?) HTML is XML too. So, you might use a intermediate format such as HTML.

I’ve found something: http://doctribute.com/blog/003-docbook-to-context-xsl-stylesheets-en.html but this involves fiddling with XSL stylesheets, while Pandoc’s covnersion from DocBook to ConTexT eliminates need for them.

My personal experience/experiment is http://www.from-pandoc-to-context.tk. It shows that I still have to learn a lot of ConTeXt ;-). But this approach allows me to generate (with pandoc) PDF and ePub documents from exactly the same source. I only need to write the style files for each. I use this approach for books, such as http://www.un-solo-origen.tk (sorry, it’s in Spanish). Actually, the problem with pandoc is that it has to deal with XML with the LaTeX input format. I mean, this is crazy.

Another option would be to just bite the bullet and learn ConTeXt properly to be use for *all* serious writings which makes sense if I consider that I *might* need to produce one presentation every 2 weeks which is more the one hundred per year. :-O

ConTeXt XML input will afford you the markup, but you’ll have to know how to deal with the slides in ConTeXt :-).

In that case it would be nice to have bette/more support in my (Emacs) editor, but that’s another topic for another thread after I did discover related thread in AUCTeX list today. ;)

Sorry, but the issue about editors is beyond my knowledge. I use geany and I’m fine with it. But I’m only an average computer user. Just in case it helps, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

On 10/13/2016 11:12 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:

Mica Semrick writes:

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From the pandoc github issues page, looks like they're working on asciidoc. See issue 1465 in the pandoc repo.

That issue (#1456) is in regard to providing AsciiDoc as Pandoc’s *input* format, but my proposed toolchin is the following:

AsciiDoc --> DocBook5 (via AsciDoc’s own DocBook backend) --> ConTeXt (using Pandoc’s AsciiDoc writer)

What you can achieve is: AsciiDoc -> HTML -> PDF generated by ConTeXt If the conversion to HTML is fine, you even avoid the conversion to ConTeXt input format (and you might be very close to parse AsciiDoc sources with ConTeXt). Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

On 10/14/2016 12:05 AM, Saša Janiška wrote:

Pablo Rodriguez writes:

...

What you can achieve is:

AsciiDoc -> HTML -> PDF generated by ConTeXt

If the conversion to HTML is fine, you even avoid the conversion to ConTeXt input format (and you might be very close to parse AsciiDoc sources with ConTeXt).

Hmm…that’s quite new idea for me and it needs some practical testing. ;)

Before we started with context we uses ascii based markup (i still have printouts of the code used for pagination, figure placement, tocs around somewhere) ... but as the input becomes more complex it makes no sense any more to use such formats and tex (or nowadays xml) starts looking clean and simple in comparison writing an asciidoc parser that directly maps to context is not that hard but i'd probably quickly start asking myself: why ... esp when the extras are to be dealt with: [[terms]] [glossary] List of Terms ------------- ["glossary",id="terms"] List of Terms ------------- [template="glossary",id="terms"] List of Terms ------------- where \startglossary[reference=terms,title={List of Terms}] is not that more coding. Anyway, using some asciidoc (should be utfdoc i guess) converted to some kind of xml is probably the easiest to deal with. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On 10/14/2016 7:50 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:

Hans Hagen writes:

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Before we started with context we uses ascii based markup (i still have printouts of the code used for pagination, figure placement, tocs around somewhere) ...

That’s very interesting…

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but as the input becomes more complex it makes no sense any more to use such formats and tex (or nowadays xml) starts looking clean and simple in comparison

Hmmm…do you use XML as *source* authoring format? I did try to play with some XML editors in the past and a bit with XSL stylesheets, but never found it as pleasnt experience, so I’m really curios to know more about your XML format usage?

We are involved in e.g. typesetting math schoolboooks and for some authors just edit the xml in an 'ascii' editor (scite) .. all a matter of keeping your source clean (clever xml editor environments sometimes mess up). As with tex documents one just hits a button to get a preview. (These projects need pdf and html, all kind of products from one source or collection of sources).

...

where

\startglossary[reference=terms,title={List of Terms}]

is not that more coding. Anyway, using some asciidoc (should be utfdoc i guess) converted to some kind of xml is probably the easiest to deal with.

I must admit that in one sense ConTeXt (TeX) is a clear winner. After I did two books using LyX/LaTeX I am simply spoiled with TeX’s typestting quality and cannot easily settle for less. Moreover, ConTeXt is certainly superior to LaTeX (despite of possible lack of more docs), so on one hand I can imagine that producing one presentation every two week would probably (hopefully) make me quite skillful in using ConTeXt (maybe even MetaPost/MetFun), at least, presentation-wise[1]…iow. the more I’d use ConText, the possibly initial (steeper) learning curve will pay off in the long term.

just look at the presentation styles in the distribuition. Many of them you can just process to get an example then start making your own ... such styles are rather simple and not much coding in the document source is needed .. just develop your own look and feel after a while (i'll clean up all these styles some day and i have a bunch on my machine used for recent presentations that can become modules too)

Let me say that few days ago I stumbled upon interesting thread (http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/auctex/2016-09/msg00001.html) on the AUCTeX mailing list disccussing about possibility to improve general user experince when writing ConTeXt using that Emacs package…Here is one message which can be interesting not only for Hans:

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/auctex/2016-09/msg00010.html

Sincerely, Gour

Footnotes: [1] Btw, are special presentation effects (animation, transitions etc.) available for non-Acrobat-reader PDF viewers?

mupdf should be able to do some of that but i never tested it Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On 10/16/2016 12:25 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:

Hans Hagen writes:

...

just look at the presentation styles in the distribuition. Many of them you can just process to get an example

Will do.

...

then start making your own ... such styles are rather simple and not much coding in the document source is needed .. just develop your own look and feel after a while

It’s clear you’re not into JS-powered hype for presentations. ;)

actually, some styles use layers and js to step through them .. very efficient and minimal javascript ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 12:25:39 +0200 Saša Janiška wrote:

...

then start making your own ... such styles are rather simple and not much coding in the document source is needed .. just develop your own look and feel after a while

It’s clear you’re not into JS-powered hype for presentations. ;)

Pfluff (Tufte, 2004) is best left to PowerPointers. Alan

On 10/13/2016 10:57 PM, Mica Semrick wrote:

From the pandoc github issues page, looks like they're working on asciidoc. See issue 1465 in the pandoc repo.

Sorry, I didn’t know that AsciiDoc wasn’t supported by pandoc as input format. But it isn’t relevant where the HTML cocde comes from to be handled by ConTeXt (as long it is valid XML). BTW, the right number issue is https://github.com/jgm/pandoc/issues/1456. Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

Hi, On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 07:30:51PM +0200, Saša Janiška wrote:

Russell Urquhart writes:

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About a year ago i really got into Asciidoc, and use it at my work for technical writing.

What are your output formats?

For my work, i output to html and pdf.

...

For me, i had some Context files, that had, for example, footnotes, within footnotes, within footnots. This is very doable in Context. Asciidoc, currently, does not support this multiple levels of footnotes, so, as i expected, converting Context -> Asciidoc, was not able to do this.

Interesting…I also have need for footnotes within footnotes and hit that barrier with rst/markdown or some other non-AsciiDoc format recently. :-)

This is an example, imo, of the source format of your markup not havng a richness of your target format.

...

My suggestions would be, as you are going from asciidoc to Context, make sure that you are happy with what you can do in asciidoc. Context should be able to readily handle a conversion from Pandoc.

Well, considering that ConTeXt can do much more than AsciiDoc, maybe for regualr web content (blog posts, shorter articles etc.) I could simply use Markdown without even going to AsciiDoc which is interesting option only in case of being able to server as single-source format.

I had first started looking at Markdown, but then came to Asciidoc, as, imo, Asciidoc is a superset of Markdown. In my previous job, and some in my current job, there is a need to have tables that have cells that go across multiple rows and/or columns. Asciidoc supports this. (Mainly because DocBook support CALS tables.) Because of this, and all the other functionality, i manily use Asciidoc. With that said, when i want or need to have a fine typeset type book/manual, something that might requrie extensive footnotes, indexes, specialized page layouts, auto cross references, etc. AND i could not get that from Asciidoc, then i would create my source in either Context, Docbook, or LaTex. (I haven't used LaTex very much myself, but i know people who swear by it.) At my previous job, we did LARGE technical manuals, and we used a customized version of DocBook. When i was editing those books, we used Xmetal to edit the source XML. I really didn't care for that, so i used Vim with various xml plugins, to traverse and edit the xml. Now, as i use asciidoc, i still use Vim with syntax highlighting. I also use Asciidco FX as an Asciidoc previewer. From there i can also generate html and pdf. When i need more finely formatted pdf's (with cover pages, front matter, back matter, multiple chapters, etc.) then i use Asciidoc-fo pdf. I would also check out Pandoc to go to and from various output format! Hope that helps! Russ

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 12:33:49PM +0200, Saša Janiška wrote:

Russell Urquhart writes:

I do not (atm) have need for complex tables. Moreover, I’ve learnt that atm. Asciidoc is not supported input format for creating presentations with Pandoc…

While Pandoc does NOT input asciidoc, i use Asciidoc FX, as a previewer, and it also exports out to html, pdf, and i think you can get it to export to DocBook. With DocBook, or html, you could take those into Pandoc and out to whatever you want. Kind of an extra step. But as i use Asciidoc FX all the time anyway, not that big of an extra step.

…which practically means that I can just use markdown for my ligth writing (web stuff, small online articles etc.) and use ConTeXt for everything else where quality is required.

Yes, or, as i said above, use Asciidoc and Asciidoc FX, and then convert that to html, and then take that to Pandoc.

Otoh, learning ConTeXt is going to be useful not only for presentations, but only for real book project which might arrive in the future…

IMO, if you are debating on learning Context, i think that would be a good use of your time. fyi, Russ

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 05:29:10PM +0200, Saša Janiška wrote:

Yeah, I kmow about using e.g. AsciiDoc(tor)’s docbook5 backend to export to DocBook which can be used as input format in Pandoc, but the problem is if I would liek to e.g. use Pandoc to create e.g. reveal.js presentation, then AsciiDoc input is of no help, since one can only do:

{txt,md} --> Pandoc --> reveal.js

but why couldn't you do: AsciiDoc => DocBook => Pandoc => reveal.js Albeit, an extra step?

...

IMO, if you are debating on learning Context, i think that would be a good use of your time.

I also believe the same, although, interestingly, footnotes-withing-footnote does not work with MkIV. :-)

It worked for me, here was my source: I've reached a stage in my life where, and perhaps its older age, but certain things mean more. As I said, the printed word, says so much. \footnote {As opposed to sad songs. \note [footej]} \footnotetext [footej] {Sorry Elton.\note [footdes]} \footnotetext [footdes] {Elton John, and probably Bernie Taupin, are credited with the song, "Sad Songs Say So Much".\note [footdesmore] \footnotetext [footdesmore] {This song was also used as a commercial... so much for artistic integrity. fwiw, Russ