Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade about bilingual typesetting. It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance, I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least! Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared to offer me some basic guidelines? Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would be sufficient for me to put the book together? Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me? Julian
On 3 Apr 2023, at 11:54, jbf via ntg-context
wrote: Am always up for a challenge, but hope this one is not beyond my possibilities! Have a request to produce a book with English-Vietnamese facing pages. The text doesn't have to be strictly in sync, but generally so. The only ConTeXt guidelines I think I have at the moment are (1) an old module called m-streams (which I am assuming is now obsolete), and (2) an exchange of emails on this list over a decade about bilingual typesetting.
It won't bother me too much if I have to tell the intending author and his editor that this might be beyond me, but before taking that stance, I have a couple of simple questions that someone might be able to respond to. And, BTW, the Vietnamese font is not the problem. Tex Gyre Pagella seems to be able to cope with that at least!
Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? And if so would you be prepared to offer me some basic guideline
Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)
Q 2: There is some guidance from Wolfgang on https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns towards the end of that page. I tried two or three pages of the first chapter of the book, placing English in outputstream[one] and the Vietnamese in outputstream[two] and kind of got a suitable result except that the last paragraph of both languages ended up BEFORE the chapter began. No idea why. The rest seemed okay. So my question is whether or not Wolfgang's sample (where he says 'a simple example but I had to write the splitter myself') would be sufficient for me to put the book together?
Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
Julian
___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
— Taco Hoekwater E: taco@bittext.nl genderfluid (all pronouns)
Okay Taco, so that's a possibility I can explore, even though it is not a nice one, as you say. I can think of a couple of other not-so-nice ways of achieving a result as well. The manuscript shown me (in MSWord, obviously) has been carefully prepared to ensure no text flows over a page, so we are really dealing with separate pages. But of course, all that changes once page dimensions and font size etc. get involved at the ConTeXt stage. However, you gave me a clue: 3 files: "by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to include those pages alternated'. For the first chapter of the proposed book I have tried Wolfgang's suggestion as listed in https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Columns#Streams by simply using the \input method. Obviously 'en' and 'vn' stand for two tex files set up as I normally would with preamble and bodymatter. I certainly get a good result once the chapter starts. It would seem logical that further chapters can be added. Obviously I only want one TOC, not two (only call it in for, say, the en.tex but not for vn.tex) and for some reason I have several blank pages before everything starts... but hopefully can solve that. Maybe I can adapt what we have below with the project structure. Not ready to give up yet! Julian \starttext \startoutputstream[one] \startcolor[red] \input en\par \stopcolor \stopoutputstream \startoutputstream[two] \startcolor[blue] \input vn\par \stopcolor \stopoutputstream \synchronizestreams[one,two] \setbox\scratchboxone\outputstreambox[one] \setbox\scratchboxtwo\outputstreambox[two] \doloop {\ifvoid\scratchboxone \exitloop \else \setbox\scratchboxfour\vsplit\scratchboxone to \textheight \vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfour\vss}% \setbox\scratchboxfive\vsplit\scratchboxtwo to \textheight \vbox to \vsize{\box\scratchboxfive\vss}% \fi} \stoptext On 3/4/23 20:15, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
Way, way back when, I did a document in NL + EN by creating two separate pdfs for the page bodies only and using a third context doc to included those pages alternated, with the correct headers added in that third document. Not a ’nice’ solution at all, but it worked for me. (this was in the nineties, though)
On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:
Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt?
Hi, Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné HTH, -- Peter
Thanks Peter. I took a look at your lua pages. I think I would get entirely lost with that code at this stage, and of course I am not considering (at least not for now) a two-column approach, but facing pages. But at least you achieved what you were trying to do at the time. Hopefully I will also! Julian On 3/4/23 20:55, Peter Münster via ntg-context wrote:
On Mon, Apr 03 2023, jbf via ntg-context wrote:
Q 1: Has anybody reading this actually produced a bilingual book (it doesn't have to be en-vn) with ConTeXt? Hi,
Only some pages of a book: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Catalogue_raisonné
HTH,
Am 03.04.23 um 11:54 schrieb jbf via ntg-context:
Q 2: I suppose the third question is whether, since LMTX, there has been any further development in the 'streams' mechanism that might help me?
No. This is one these problems that arise once every other year, but so far nobody contributed a usable solution or at least specification. (That’s how I understood Hans when I asked about this fo my book.) Hraban
Yes, that is clear from the emails over a decade or so on the list. But as you will see from my response to Taco, it is possible I can achieve a satisfactory result from Wolfgang's 2016 'stream' suggestion. Julian On 3/4/23 22:04, Henning Hraban Ramm via ntg-context wrote:
This is one these problems that arise once every other year, but so far nobody contributed a usable solution or at least specification. (That’s how I understood Hans when I asked about this fo my book.)
participants (4)
-
Henning Hraban Ramm
-
jbf
-
Peter Münster
-
Taco Hoekwater