On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:

well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define

\permanent\protected\def\-%   {\begingroup    \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary    \endgroup}

i will ponder this

I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point. Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points. The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words get hyphenated at certain points. Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would be no surprises using such a feature. -- Alan

On 30/06/21 12:25, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:

...

On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define

\permanent\protected\def\-%    {\begingroup     \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary     \endgroup}

i will ponder this

I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point. Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points. The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words get hyphenated at certain points.

Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would be no surprises using such a feature. We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)

We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).

So here is something to ponder:

\pushoverloadmode \unprotect

    \permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary       {\begingroup        \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary        \endgroup}

    \aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary

    \permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%       {\superexplicitdiscretionary}

    \permanent\protected\def\-%

{\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}

    \protect \popoverloadmode

    \nohyphens \hsize 1mm

    test\-test \par test\--test

\stoptext

\= macron accent (bar) should not be changed. \-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused with -- (en dash). -- Alan

On 6/30/2021 8:50 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Alan Braslau schrieb am 30.06.2021 um 20:40:

...

On 30/06/21 12:25, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

On 6/30/2021 7:35 PM, Alan Braslau wrote:

...

On 29/06/21 05:52, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

well, you ask for nothyphenated; we could define

\permanent\protected\def\-%    {\begingroup \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary     \endgroup}

i will ponder this

I believe that \- defines an *optional* hyphenation point. Specifying nothyphenated should not hyphenate, even at optional points. The author can otherwise use hyphenated and arrange to help the words get hyphenated at certain points.

Perhaps a new "optional" hyphenation point macro can be added that would have super-powers to override the align parameter. There would be no surprises using such a feature. We can't use \= unless we drop the \= being macros (anyone using that?)

We can also use \+ which currently is just "+" because it needs some value (sometimes it gets a local meaning).

So here is something to ponder:

\pushoverloadmode \unprotect

     \permanent\protected\def\superexplicitdiscretionary        {\begingroup \hyphenationmode\explicithyphenationmodecode\explicitdiscretionary         \endgroup}

\aliased\let\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop\explicitdiscretionary

     \permanent\protected\def\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes-%        {\superexplicitdiscretionary}

     \permanent\protected\def\-%

{\doifelsenextcharcs-\lang_explicit_discretionary_yes\lang_explicit_discretionary_nop}

     \protect \popoverloadmode

     \nohyphens \hsize 1mm

     test\-test \par test\--test

\stoptext

\= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.

\-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused with -- (en dash).

Is there some problem to make it just another option.

\enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated] or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Am 01.07.2021 um 17:54 schrieb Alan Braslau :

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 00:12:40 +0200 Hans Hagen wrote:

...

...

...

\= macron accent (bar) should not be changed.

\-- is a good suggestion, like insisting, and should not get confused with -- (en dash).

Is there some problem to make it just another option.

\enabledirectives[hyphenators.discretionary=hyphenated|nothyphenated]

or maybe some key is \setuplanguages (what key)

Why not, but this would be somewhat obscure for the average user who would have to identify and then set this option in all documents...

The \-- extension is kind-of nice, obscure in its own way but good functionally. The risk is of users confusing this with the en ligature, something that unicode users avoid...

Maybe implement both solutions (setup affecting \- as well as \--) in Context?

And what about \– (U+2013)? Steffen

Am 01.07.2021 um 18:05 schrieb Alan Braslau :

...

And what about \– (U+2013)?

Now THAT gets confusing!

Why not U+2010 (HYPHEN), the anti-U+2011 (NON BREAKING HYPHEN) vs. U+002D (HYPHEN-MINUS). What a can of worms...

Oh yes, let’s do Unicode Whitespace programming... HR