Thank you Wolfgang, I guess I'm thinking too complicated. Ultimately, this should result in a type area according to the golden ratio. (textheight = 660 pt = 1.618 * textwidth or something similar, depending on the font size or interlinespace) Greetings Thomas Am 22.02.25 um 13:43 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

Am 22.02.2025 um 13:02 schrieb Thomas Meyer:

...

Hi folks,

is it possible to calculate with interlinespace and lines?

For example: interlinespace = 15pt lines = 44

Something like that -> textheight = interlinespace * lines = 660 pt

How can I do it and were can I find information about this?

Can you provide more information because the layout already take the number of lines and the line height into account when it calculates the text height.

\showgrid

\setuplayout[lines=20]

\starttext

\page[dummy]

\page

\setuplayout[lines=30]

\page[dummy]

\page

\setupinterlinespace[line=4ex] \setuplayout[lines=20]

\page[dummy]

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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Hello Hraban, thanks for your tip. Hopefully I'll find time to have a look at it after that busy weekend. Regards Thomas Am 22.02.25 um 19:11 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm:

Am 22.02.25 um 18:36 schrieb Thomas Meyer:

...

Thank you Wolfgang,

I guess I'm thinking too complicated. Ultimately, this should result in a type area according to the golden ratio. (textheight = 660 pt = 1.618 * textwidth or something similar, depending on the font size or interlinespace)

To simplify your code, you can replace many of these measures with units, e.g. th, tw; see also lowlevel-registers.pdf

Hraban ___________________________________________________________________________________

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Hi Rik and autumnus, Sorry for my late reply, but thank you very much for your suggestions on this topic. Your calculations are very complicated I think. However, the type area is not the end of the story. Unfortunately, the line length remains the same with your suggestions, even if the font size is reduced. For good readability, however, the number of characters in the line should remain more or less constant and not increase. In any case, that's what I've read. I have therefore orientated myself on this: https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Introduction/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt/KOMA-scrar... It looks like this for me now: \definebodyfontenvironment[12pt][interlinespace=15pt] \setupbodyfont[libertinus, 12pt] \setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle}, alternative=doublesided] \setupindenting[yes, small, next] %\enablemode[BCOR] % Set binding correction value . \doifmodeelse{BCOR}{\def\bindingcorr{5mm}}{\def\bindingcorr{0pt}} % Set visible page width. \newdimen\PageWidth \PageWidth=\dimexpr(\paperwidth-\bindingcorr) % Determine the paper aspect ratio. \edef\Ratio{0.618}             %Golden Ratio % Set the textarea height proportional to the width. \newdimen\Height \Height=41\baselineskip            % constant number of lines (41) \newdimen\Width \Width=\dimexpr(\Ratio\Height) % Set the margin/gutter widths to be equal on a full spread. %\newdimen\Back \Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 2) + \bindingcorr) \enablemode[oneside] \newdimen\Back \doifmodeelse{oneside}     {\Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 2) + \bindingcorr)}     {\Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 3) + \bindingcorr)} % Set the top and bottom margins in a 1:2 ratio, ignoring headers. \edef\Top{\the\dimexpr((\paperheight - \Height) / 3 - 3\lineheight)} % Redefine \Height to include header and footer space. \Height=\dimexpr(\Height + 8\lineheight) % Set up the page layout using the calculated parameters. \setuplayout[      backspace=\the\Back,      height=\the\Height,      width=\the\Width,      header=2.5\lineheight,      headerdistance=0.5\lineheight,      footer=4.5\lineheight,      footerdistance=0.5\lineheight,      bottom=2\lineheight,      bottomdistance=0.5\lineheight,      margindistance=0.2\lineheight,      topspace=\Top,      grid=on,      ] \starttext \showgrid \input knuth \input tufte \input knuth \input tufte \showlayout[1, pt, mm] \stoptext If I am wrong, please correct me. Greetings Thomas Am 24.02.25 um 19:33 schrieb Rik Kabel:

On 2025-02-24 04:19, Thomas Meyer wrote:

...

Hello Hraban,

thanks for your tip. Hopefully I'll find time to have a look at it after that busy weekend.

Regards Thomas

Am 22.02.25 um 19:11 schrieb Henning Hraban Ramm:

...

Am 22.02.25 um 18:36 schrieb Thomas Meyer:

...

Thank you Wolfgang,

I guess I'm thinking too complicated. Ultimately, this should result in a type area according to the golden ratio. (textheight = 660 pt = 1.618 * textwidth or something similar, depending on the font size or interlinespace)

To simplify your code, you can replace many of these measures with units, e.g. th, tw; see also lowlevel-registers.pdf

Perhaps this can help. It works for me. It lays out his page 155 (1st edition paperback) bottom page, which has a 1.7 ratio type area on a 1.5 ratio page.

\doifmodeelse{frame}{\def\Paper{letter}}{\def\Paper{octavo}}   \definepapersize [octavo]                    [width=6in,%   152.4mm, 433.62pt, 432bp                     height=9in]%  228.6mm, 650..43pt, 648bp   \setuppapersize[octavo][\Paper]   \setuplayout   [ %Bringhurst example on p155 % % P = 1.5 (h=9", w=6") (648bp × 432bp) (54pc × 36pc) % T = 1.7 (d=6.8", m=4") (491.44pt × 289.08pt) (489.6bp × 288bp) (40.8pc × 24pc) %         (exclusive of running heads and folios) % s = t = w/9 = 0.667" backspace and top margin % e = 2s = 1.333" foredge % ( f = h - t - d = 9" - 0.667" - 6.8" = 1.533" %   but must allow for footer/footerdistance in that ) %  36 lines @ 13.5pt = 486pt, 36 lines @ 13.45bp  = 484.2bp       %       % Bringhurst calculations for 24pica width   char/line       %    libertinus alphabet width 10pt:   122pt   66       %    libertinus alphabet width 10.5pt: 128pt   63       %    libertinus alphabet width 11pt:   134pt   61       %    libertinus alphabet width 12pt:   146pt   56 % backspace = leftedge+leftedgedistance+leftmarginwidth+leftmargindistance % cutspace  = right... % s = w/9 = leftmarginwidth+leftmargindistance = 0.667" = 48bp % t = s = topspace + header+headerdistance %         header+headerdistance = 27bp %         topspace = 48bp - 27bp = 21bp % e = 2×s = rightmarginwidth+rightmargindistance = 1.333" = 96bp                   vz=2,                   location=middle,                   backspace=pw / 9,                   cutspace=\backspace * 2,                   width=\backspace * 6,                   height=(\backspace * 6 * 1.7) + (4 * \lineheight),                   topspace=\backspace - 2 * \lineheight,                   headerdistance=\lineheight, header=\lineheight,                   footerdistance=\lineheight, footer=\lineheight,                   leftmargindistance=8bp, rightmargindistance=8bp,                   leftmargin=\backspace - \leftmargindistance,                   rightmargin=\cutspace - \rightmargindistance,                  ]

-- Rik

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Am 03.03.25 um 04:22 schrieb Rik Kabel:

...

Hi Rik and autumnus, > > Sorry for my late reply, but thank you very much for your > suggestions on this topic. Your calculations are very complicated I >

...

% Redefine \Height to include header and footer space. > \Height=\dimexpr(\Height + 8\lineheight) > > % Set up the page layout using the calculated parameters. > \setuplayout[ backspace=\the\Back, height=\the\Height, > width=\the\Width, header=2.5\lineheight, >

On 2025-03-02 11:38, Thomas Meyer wrote: think. However, the type area is not the end of the story. > Unfortunately, the line length remains the same with your > suggestions, even if the font size is reduced. For good readability, > however, the number of characters in the line should remain more or > less constant and not increase. In any case, that's what I've read. > I have therefore orientated myself on this: https:// > wiki.contextgarden.net/Introduction/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt/KOMA- > scrartcl_Type_Area > > It looks like this for me now: > > \definebodyfontenvironment[12pt][interlinespace=15pt] > \setupbodyfont[libertinus, 12pt] > > \setuppagenumbering[location={footer,middle}, > alternative=doublesided] > > \setupindenting[yes, small, next] > > %\enablemode[BCOR] % Set binding correction value . > \doifmodeelse{BCOR}{\def\bindingcorr{5mm}}{\def\bindingcorr{0pt}} > > % Set visible page width. \newdimen\PageWidth > \PageWidth=\dimexpr(\paperwidth-\bindingcorr) > > % Determine the paper aspect ratio. \edef\Ratio{0.618} > %Golden Ratio > > % Set the textarea height proportional to the width. > \newdimen\Height \Height=41\baselineskip % constant > number of lines (41) \newdimen\Width \Width=\dimexpr(\Ratio\Height) > > % Set the margin/gutter widths to be equal on a full spread. % > \newdimen\Back \Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 2) + > \bindingcorr) > > \enablemode[oneside] \newdimen\Back \doifmodeelse{oneside} > {\Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 2) + \bindingcorr)} > {\Back=\dimexpr(((\PageWidth - \Width) / 3) + \bindingcorr)} > > > % Set the top and bottom margins in a 1:2 ratio, ignoring headers. > \edef\Top{\the\dimexpr((\paperheight - \Height) / 3 - 3\lineheight)} > headerdistance=0.5\lineheight, footer=4.5\lineheight, > footerdistance=0.5\lineheight, bottom=2\lineheight, > bottomdistance=0.5\lineheight, margindistance=0.2\lineheight, > topspace=\Top, grid=on, ] > > \starttext > > \showgrid > > \input knuth > > \input tufte > > \input knuth > > \input tufte > > \showlayout[1, pt, mm] > > \stoptext > > If I am wrong, please correct me. > > Greetings Thomas

You are correct that these are two different approaches. The version I showed  calculates fixed top and side margins based on page size and computes a type area of specific proportions after that. The user is still responsible for determining an appropriate font size and leading, and the line count follows from that. Your solution starts with a font size, leading and line count, then computes text height, and lastly text width, splitting the remaining space among the margins.

I think that there are a couple of problems with the code as shown.

*  It conflates paper size and page size -- try adding \setuppapersize[A5][A3] and you will see what I mean.

How can I change that?

*  I do not see where your solution adapts the width to the alphabet width -- the referenced wiki page does;

You mean that: % Set the textarea width to 2.6 alphabets. \setbox\scratchbox\hbox{\dorecurse{26}{\character\recurselevel}} \newdimen\Width \Width=\dimexpr(2.6\wd\scratchbox) That's something I don't understand! What is a 2.6 alphabet? What means "scratchbox", "2.6\wd" ... ?

* your version uses \baselineskip an an indirect stand-in. (Also, the comment is now misleading: Width is set proportionate to the determined height, not height proportionate to a determined width.)

Forget the comment. It is copied.

* As far as characters per line, there are so many variables -- serif or sans, large or small x-height, ... but for single column texts with book faces 50 to 70 characters width is typical, 40 to 50 for two-column setting. You pick your authority and make your choice --

I think a regular font is just right for continuous text. (Here 68 characters per line)

*  Binding correction is a press-time issue. Page layout should not deal with it -- it is handled during imposition after the paper weight and binding methods are settled. Two different trades. (If you need a quickie leaflet printed on standard untrimmed paper perhaps you might want to look at it, but not beyond that.) As long as you don't use BCOR mode, however, this is irrelevant to your layout, and I would remove all references to it. * Is this for a one-sided or two-sided document? You have \setuppagenumbering configured for two-sided, but calculate margins based on a mode suggesting a one-sided document.

Binding correction and pagenumbering is not so important as the other points I think.

Other than that, it does a fine job. Perhaps best practice calls for \relax at the end of some of the \dimexprs, but that isn't necessary in this case.

Thank you!

-- Rik

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Thank you Rik, for your comments.   Now more questions remain, see above! You can also sit between two stools: on the one hand a balanced type area, on the other a favourite font with too many/too few letters in a line. Greetings Thomas

Am 03.03.2025 um 15:46 schrieb Rik Kabel:

On 2025-03-03 08:43, Thomas Meyer wrote:

...

You mean that: % Set the textarea width to 2.6 alphabets. \setbox\scratchbox\hbox{\dorecurse{26}{\character\recurselevel}} \newdimen\Width \Width=\dimexpr(2.6\wd\scratchbox) That's something I don't understand! What is a 2.6 alphabet? What means "scratchbox", "2.6\wd" ... ?

This is straight TeX (not the higher-level nicety of ConTeXt). What it does is create a throw-away box (a scratchbox) and sets in it horizontally one lower case alphabet of the current body font. It creates that alphabet by setting \character{1}\character{2}... \character{26} using a loop. It then measures the width of the box holding the 26 characters (\wd\scratchbox) and multiplies that by 2.6, depositing the result in \Width.

A more ConTeXt-y way to do this might be:

\def\Alphabet{abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz} \setupbodyfont[libertinus,12pt] \setwidthof\Alphabet\to\AlphabetWidth

and then use width=2.6\AlphabetWidth in your layout

You can also use the avarage character width of the main language but at the moment it's limited to the four languages shown in the example. \startsetups[averagecharwidth] \page \mainlanguage[#1] \setuplayout[width=70\averagecharwidth] \starttabulate \NC Language \EQ \currentmainlanguage \NC\NR \NC Textwidth \EQ \PtToCm{\the\textwidth} \NC\NR \stoptabulate \samplefile{lorem} \stopsetups \showframe[text][text] \starttext \setupwithargument{averagecharwidth}{en} \setupwithargument{averagecharwidth}{nl} \setupwithargument{averagecharwidth}{de} \setupwithargument{averagecharwidth}{pt} \stoptext Wolfgang

Am 03.03.2025 um 04:22 schrieb Rik Kabel:

Other than that, it does a fine job. Perhaps best practice calls for \relax at the end of some of the \dimexprs, but that isn't necessary in this case.

You can also use braces to limit the argument for \dimexpr. Hans added this feature at the begin of the year to Luametatex. \starttext \the\dimexpr{2pt+3pt} \stoptext Wolfgang

I have defined the following layout in my own module, which may have some inspiration for your needs. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % must load font first, then can get real text fontsize(1em) % Only care about the width of each row, the height of each column and the width of the side note. % Others are cut according to the ratio of 1:√2 (only rough) %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % If the layout is not set in the module, \c_textcount \c_heightcount \c_margincount must be set in advance. \unprotect \newcount\c_textcount \c_textcount=40\relax % Modify to the required number of words per line \newcount\c_heightcount \c_heightcount=45\relax %Modify to the required number of lines in the text \newcount\c_margincount \c_margincount=10\relax % Modify to the number of words required for each line in the side note area \newdimen\d_textfontsize \d_textfontsize=\fontdimen6\font\relax \newdimen\d_marginwidth \d_marginwidth=\dimexpr\fontdimen6\font*\c_margincount\relax \newdimen\d_textlineheight\d_textlineheight= \dimexpr\baselineskip*\c_heightcount-\baselineskip+ \ifdim\topskip<\ht\strutbox\topskip\else\ht\strutbox\fi\relax \protect \startluacode local todimen local pw = tex.getdimen("paperwidth") local ph = tex.getdimen("paperheight") local pr = pw / ph local tc = tex.getcount("c_textcount") local hc = tex.getcount("c_heightcount") local mc = tex.getcount("c_margincount") local bs = tex.getdimen("d_textfontsize") local hh = tex.getdimen("d_textlineheight") local mw = tex.getdimen("d_marginwidth") local twr = tc * bs -- The number of words per line is necessary to set. if hc == 0 then -- If the page height is not set thr = twr / pr else thr = hh end local Rm = (pw - twr) / (1 + pr) -- right total local Rmr = Rm * pr / (2 + pr + 1/pr) -- edge distance local Rml = Rmr / pr -- margin distance local Lm = pw - Rm - twr -- left total if mc == 0 then Rmm = Rm -Rml -Rmr -- margin text width else Rmm = mw Rmr = (Rm - Rmm) / (1 + pr) Rml = Rm - Rmm - Rmr end local He = (ph - thr) / (1 + pr) -- top total local Fo = ph - He - thr -- bot total local Het = He * pr / (2 + pr + 1/pr) -- top distance local Heb = Het / pr -- header distance local Hem = He - Het - Heb -- header height local Fob = Fo * pr / (2 + pr + 1/pr) local Fot = Fob / pr local Fom = Fo - Fot -Fob textwidth = tostring(twr/65536) .. "pt" textheight = ph - Het - Fob -- textheight 是 Page - Top - Tail textheight = tostring(textheight/65536) .. "pt" backspace = tostring(Lm/65536) .. "pt" rightmargin = tostring(Rmm/65536) .. "pt" rightmargindistance = tostring(Rml/65536) .. "pt" rightedgedistance = tostring(Rmr/65536) .. "pt" topdistance = tostring(Het/65536) .. "pt" header = tostring(Hem/65536) .. "pt" headerdistance = tostring(Heb/65536) .. "pt" footer = tostring(Fom/65536) .. "pt" footerdistance = tostring(Fot/65536) .. "pt" botdistance = tostring(Fob/65536) .. "pt" -- context(ph/65536)context.par() -- context("he ")context(He/65536)context.par() -- context("het ")context(Het/65536)context.par() -- context("hem ")context(Hem/65536)context.par() -- context("heb ")context(Heb/65536)context.par() -- context("fo ")context(Fo/65536)context.par() -- context("fot ")context(Fot/65536)context.par() -- context("fom ")context(Fom/65536)context.par() -- context("fob ")context(Fob/65536)context.par() -- context(thr/65536)context.par() -- context(textheight)context.par() context.definelayout( { "hermes" }, { width=textwidth, backspace=backspace, rightmargin=rightmargin, rightmargindistance=rightmargindistance, rightedgedistance=rightedgedistance, topspace=topdistance, header=header, headerdistance=headerdistance, footer=footer, footerdistance=footerdistance, bottomspace=botdistance, height=textheight, } ) \stopluacode %%%%%%% Then you can set it to \setuplayout[hermes]， If the current layout does not meet the requirements, it can also be modified later. autumnus