On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

( Oops, pushed inadvertedly some key on my keyboard and the message was away while in GMail - here's the sequel... )

Having heard Linux is, amongst other things, far more stable I might be tempted to play with it and progressively build some experience with it, master the beast and then switch some applications, amongst which ConTeXt, to it.

As I presently don't know a thing about Linux, which distribution do you recommend ? I have played with fedora /red-hat, opensuse/suse, debian, ubuntu, slackware . All goods, actually I'm using ubuntu. Maybe fedora/opensuse with kde can be confortable for you .

BTW, I don't use tex from these distro, I always put all files under /opt/luatex , compiling when necessary ; it's in a someway distro-independent. -- luigi

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

( Oops, pushed inadvertedly some key on my keyboard and the message was away while in GMail - here's the sequel... )

Having heard Linux is, amongst other things, far more stable I might be tempted to play with it and progressively build some experience with it, master the beast and then switch some applications, amongst which ConTeXt, to it.

As I presently don't know a thing about Linux, which distribution do you recommend ?

More than the distribution (all the major ones are less or more the same), you must choose your desktop environment : Gnome / KDE (or xfce for a small and speedy one). No troll, be it's usual to say : The gnome one is more « run it, it's simple, it works » but it's more difficult to do really fine tune (even if you can do them). KDE : run it, it works (too) but you can fine tweaks on each part (the menues are impressive). Remember that the liveCDs are your friends : just try them ! I'm using Ubuntu and gnome but all the other choices are good. Welcome in a « linux » world ! Olivier. -- [Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ] Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com

I had a poor experience with "commercial" design software on Windows (by Serif, a company based out of the UK.) That pushed me to Linux. I started with Debian "woody" and right away I had to fetch and compile kernel modules from an Intel code base. I actually got Debian working well under the 2.4 kernel and KDE (cause Gnome 2 was only just starting). Then I went with Fedora, Mandrake, and SuSE. Each had strong and weak points, except Mandrake (now Mandriva) that only had weak points. I then toured through the BSD's and found that I like the X implementation there the best, but the desktop experience was not the best. I even tried Plan 9 and Solaris, which is slow. And I use a Mac for work. I now run FreeBSD on a server and Ubuntu on desktop. If you know Windows, then Mac, PC-BSD, and Ubuntu/Kubuntu are the likely candidates. Increasingly I grow irritated with Gnome, but KDE is also quite bloated. The Push Button Installer technology of PC-BSD, similar to Mac and Windows, will feel very "normal." TeX and friends work out of the box as TeX Live 2007 on Ubuntu and Kubuntu. There is no "port" for FreeBSD apart from TeTeX AFAIK but there are binaries that one can install under /usr/local. The BSD's have better docs than Linux. Period. And their kernel and userland come together in a full-features OS while Linux is a kernel and GNU, etc., userland. Kile for KDE and auctex with emacs are probably what you will be interested in. TeXmaker forked from Kile and it can be slow. TeXmacs and LyX are not strictly TeX/LaTeX, but close. I'm torn between a TeX packaged "distro" and independent construction either via TeX Live itself or DIY'ing it from CTAN. OTOH it's nice not to have to build your own texmf tree; but it can be done and I've done it by following the specs. Then again, if you are not LaTeXing things, you might not need it. It gives one, however, a certain air of self-gratification to master mktexlsr and have kpsewhich find stuff. Also anything Linux-based is likely to have someone's ideology about "freedom" of some sort butting into otherwise perfectly good software packages and delimiting the "non-free" stuff, resulting in, for example, the hyperlinked ConTeXt manuals not finding their links. With the BSD's you don't have this politicking down on the commune. But TeTeX is a bit outdated for my tastes. Charles On Fri, 2008-06-13 at 12:42 +0200, Alan Stone wrote:

( Oops, pushed inadvertedly some key on my keyboard and the message was away while in GMail - here's the sequel... )

Having heard Linux is, amongst other things, far more stable I might be tempted to play with it and progressively build some experience with it, master the beast and then switch some applications, amongst which ConTeXt, to it.

As I presently don't know a thing about Linux, which distribution do you recommend ?

Many thanks, Alan

At Friday 13/06/2008 12:28, you wrote:

...

Hi,

Yesterday WXP crashed and it took me a whole day to repair the thing and get it up and running again.

Ha

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Thanks all for kindly posting your precious recommendations and tips. (K)Ubuntu and PC-BSD Live CD's it will be... as an appetizer. :O) For future reference for people considering giving it a go, here are some useful links: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions - http://distrowatch.com Best, Alan

Alan Stone wrote:

Wow... this is a good one:

Linux Distribution chooser: answer some questions and there you go... http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/

Results were *very* close to your suggestions.

That was fun! It actually proposed the distro I'm using (Mandriva).

Dne sobota 14. junija 2008 je luigi scarso napisal(a):

...

...

Linux Distribution chooser: answer some questions and there you go... http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/

Results were *very* close to your suggestions.

That was fun! It actually proposed the distro I'm using (Mandriva).

Nice. I got as results both my current distribution (Gentoo) and my previous and first one (Slackware) :] I have to say this is the first test that where actually got out the distro I would choose myself! Cheers, Matija -- gsm: +386 41 849 552 e-mail: matija.suklje@rutka.net www: http://matija.suklje.name aim: hookofsilver icq: 110183360 jabber/g-talk: matija.suklje@gabbler.org msn: matija.suklje@rutka.net yahoo: matija_suklje GPG/PGP fingerprint: FB64 FFAF B8DA 5AB5 B18A 98B8 2B68 0B51 0549 D278

Hi, I've have Ubuntu 8.04 running in a VirtualBox under WXP. No dual boot setup necessary any more. How Cool ! Works like a charm - apart from a USB printer problem. Installed TeX, ConTeXt and XeTeX through the Package Manager (to test whether it worked). Now trying to update ConTeXt with ctxtools --updatecontext which gives CtxTools | updating /etc/texmf:/var/lib/texmf:/usr/share/texmf:/usr/share/texmf-texlive CtxTools | unable to change to /etc/texmf:/var/lib/texmf:/usr/share/texmf:/usr/share/texmf-texlive whether I'm in root or not !??? What's the corresponding command for XeTeX ? ( tried --updatexetex which failed ) Best, Alan

At least ctxtools --updatecontext should work. The /etc/texmf:/var/lib/texmf:/usr/share/texmf:/usr/share/texmf-texlive are there. Or am I (again) missing something ? On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Wolfgang Schuster < schuster.wolfgang@googlemail.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

I've have Ubuntu 8.04 running in a VirtualBox under WXP. No dual boot setup necessary any more. How Cool ! Works like a charm - apart from a USB

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 9:40 PM, Alan Stone wrote: printer

...

problem.

Installed TeX, ConTeXt and XeTeX through the Package Manager (to test whether it worked).

Now trying to update ConTeXt with

ctxtools --updatecontext

which gives

CtxTools | updating /etc/texmf:/var/lib/texmf:/usr/share/texmf:/usr/share/texmf-texlive CtxTools | unable to change to /etc/texmf:/var/lib/texmf:/usr/share/texmf:/usr/share/texmf-texlive

whether I'm in root or not !???

What's the corresponding command for XeTeX ? ( tried --updatexetex which failed )

Why should this work, XeTeX is a binary and ConTeXt a TeX macro package independant of the engine (one fits it all).

Regards Wolfgang

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___________________________________________________________________________________

I don't understand. Please explain... (1) >You cannot update the binaries that way (you are not supposed to :). Why can't the binaries be updated that way (why aren't we supposed to) ? (2) >On your own risk, you may update the binaries from minimals

rsync -av \ rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/xetex/linux/bin/ \ /path/to/bin/with/xetex

Why on your own risk ? Thanks a lot for clearing up the mist, Alan On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Mojca Miklavec < mojca.miklavec.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

You cannot update the binaries that way (you are not supposed to :).

On your own risk, you may update the binaries from minimals rsync -av \ rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/xetex/linux/bin/ \ /path/to/bin/with/xetex

Mojca

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

The more I research, the less I understand...

...

From http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals :

--- quote ---

Updating For now, the main recipe to update is to run first-setup again. A command similar to ctxtools --updatecontext might be provided in the future.

--- unquote ---

If ctxtools can't be used to update the OS's ConTeXt installation and there isn't a corresponding one to update the minimals' ConTeXt installation, what's its use then ?

Also...

--- quote ---

Author: Mojca Miklavec Date: 2007-12-22 00:42 +100 To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Subject: Re: [NTG-context] Keeping up-to-date under TeXLive On Dec 21, 2007 6:22 PM, Joel C. Salomon wrote:

...

My new Ubuntu installation includes TeXLive version 2007-10. Is there a way for me to keep the ConTeXt part of this up-to-date with current (stable) versions?

ctxtools --updatecontext

--- unquote ---

Uh ???

The next step is going back to windows ;-) Regards Wolfgang

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

Hi Wolfgang,

Hmmm... There's Mac too.

However, I don't give up so quickly. :O)

I find Linux rather cool. At the same time finding Windows' desktop/window manager more and more boring, considering the personalisation capabilities of GNU/Linux' desktops, etc...

Hence, for the time being, I'll keep on truckin'. Stimulates my grey cells.

So I'd really like this issue figured out.

Any clues ?

ctxtools --updatecontext has been written before minimals were existing. And since there is (or was) no reliable source to take the binaries from, it didn't ever update any binaries. All it does is: - download the zip - unzip it - make the formats If you are lucky, it puts the files where you want them to be, but since every installation works its own way, it's hard to predict where to put them; on MikTeX it behaved a bit bad. And with gwTeX that provides incremental updates, the updates by ConTeXt and updates by gwTeX didn't really like each other (I mean - updates by gwTeX were shielded by the version you downloaded with ctxtools). Also, a similar problem existed with format generation which fly to the proper place if you are lucky. If you are not, then format fly to some weird place, but in general it worked. you can theoretically use mtxrun --script update --update --make --force, but I fear that it will only work with the minimals since many things are hardcoded (and not worked out perfectly yet).

(1) >You cannot update the binaries that way (you are not supposed to :).

Why can't the binaries be updated that way (why aren't we supposed to) ?

Of course you can. But if you happen to update TL package, your additions will be destroyed. And you need to rebuild all the other formats. It's not so harmful. Supposed to relates to "your system would be supposed to update its own packages", but for ConTeXt it obviously doesn't do.

(2) >On your own risk, you may update the binaries from minimals

...

rsync -av \ rsync://contextgarden.net/minimals/current/bin/xetex/linux/bin/ \ /path/to/bin/with/xetex

Why on your own risk ?

If you destroy (overwrite) the old binary :) - if you dowload the wrong binary, then you have neither working. Generally, it should work OK. Mojca

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008, Alan Stone wrote:

Thanks Mojca.

...

If you are lucky, it puts the files where you want them to be, but since every installation works its own way, it's hard to predict where to put them; ... Of course you can. But if you happen to update TL package, your additions will be destroyed. And you need to rebuild all the other formats. It's not so harmful.

Supposed to relates to "your system would be supposed to update its own packages", but for ConTeXt it obviously doesn't do. ... If you destroy (overwrite) the old binary :) - if you dowload the wrong binary, then you have neither working. Generally, it should work OK.

Caramba! Tricky, tricky stuff.

FYI, http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation_hints mentions, under the "Updating" paragraph, (after calling ctxtools --updatecontext) "then you have to regenerate the format(s)...", while you wrote

...

All it does is: - download the zip - unzip it - make the formats

I wonder, for the record, ...

Is there any (installation) process which enables ctxtools to update ConTeXt without risking to #@!&X% it up ?

Yes. If you do not need latex, the safest thing to not install anything tex related from your distribution and only install the minimals from the garden. (You need to update using the mechanism provided by the minimals, and not ctxtools). The trouble with this is two-fold. First, you may need to use latex, and second, many packages on linux require tex, so you get a tex from the distribution also. Now you have two options: Either isolate minimal context from the one provided by the distribution, or make them co-exist. Isolating them is easy, the minimals even come with a script "setuptex" which does that. So, you just source setuptex before running context. If you want minimals and distribution tex to coexits, things are a bit tricky. You need to understand how the tex distribution works, which is an intangled (for the want of a better word) mess. However, the more fundamental question is: why do you need to update tex manually, why doesn't the distribution update tex frequently. Part of the reason is that it did not need to. Before luatex and xetex, tex binaries got updated occasionally. So, a periodic update of the binaries was good enough. As for macro packages, the biggest component is LaTeX, and LaTeX core is updated *very* slowly. So, again a periodic update was good enough. ConTeXt somehow spoils the party by adding features at an alarmingly fast rate. So, if you want to use new features you must update. So, someone needs to package everything for the distribution so that all users can frequently update context. Currently the only distribution that does that is Debian. Norbert Preining maintains a .deb for context macros which is updated fairly regularly. So, if you are on a debian based system, you can use Norbert's context package, and have a fairly recent context (~1-2 months old) distribution. For most cases this would work, unless you want to test the latest features.

Side-question: "But if you happen to update TL package" - what does TL stand for ?

Texlive. Currently TUG (Tex User group) releases a DVD each year containing the recent copy of all tex/latex/context packages and all binaries needed to run tex and friends on Windows, linux and mac. These days, most linux distributions use texlive as a source of tex packages that they include. Aditya