On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that \DroppedCaps does not do.

Hello Taco, could you please give an example how to do the same with \DroppedCaps, what is shown on page 30 of http://pmrb.free.fr/work/cours/latex-intro.pdf ? Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Dear listmembers, I am not quite yet a ConTeXt user (struggling with the installation), but having a background as typographer, graphic designer, and printer, I feel that the lettrine.sty package could serve very well as a model for something similar in ConTeXt. At any rate, in order to produce high quality intitials, a ConTeXt equivalent should not have any less parameters than lettrine.sty. To re-cap the parameters in lettrine.sty: ============================================================== - lines=<integer> sets how many lines the dropped capital will occupy (default=2); - lhang=<decimal> (0 < lhang =< 1) sets how much of the dropped capital’s width should hang into the margin (default=0); - loversize=<decimal> (-1 < loversize =< 1) enlarges the dropped capital’s height: with loversize=0.1 its height is enlarged by 10% so that it raises above the top paragraph’s line (default=0); - lraise=<decimal> does not affect the dropped capital’s height, but moves it up (if positive), down (if negative); useful with capitals like J or Q which have a positive depth, (default=0); - findent=<dimen> (positive or negative) controls the horizontal gap between the dropped capital and the indented block of text (default=0pt); - nindent=<dimen> shifts all indented lines, starting from the second one, horizontally by <dimen> (this shift is relative to the first line, default=0.5em); - slope=<dimen> can be used with dropped capitals like A or V to add <dimen> (positive or negative) to the indentation of each line starting from the third one (no e ect if lines=2, default=0pt); - ante=<text> can be used to typeset <text> before the dropped capital (typical use is for French guillemets starting the paragraph); - image=<true> (new to version 1.6) will force \lettrine to replace the letter normally used as dropped capital by an image in eps format (latex) or in pdf, jpg, etc. format (pdflatex); this needs the graphicx package to be loaded in the preamble of course. \lettrine[image=true]{A}{n exemple} or just \lettrine[image]{A}{n exemple} will load A.eps or A.pdf instead of letter A. This was suggested by Bill Jetzer. Redefining \LettrineFont as \LettrineFontEPS still works for compatibility but is deprecated. ============================================================== Also, sometimes one wants to indent all indented lines to the same position (instead of intenting the first line less) and this should ideally be possible too. Plus setting a specific color for the initial, but that is handled by ConTeXt's standard features (I guess). Best regards, Mats Broberg

Ah ok, I see. No you cannot do that with DroppedCaps, as is.

Will post something later ...

Taco

Peter Münster wrote:

...

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

...

Probably, but .. I do not know what it is that lettrine does that \DroppedCaps does not do.

Hello Taco, could you please give an example how to do the same with \DroppedCaps, what is shown on page 30 of http://pmrb.free.fr/work/cours/latex-intro.pdf ? Peter

Hans Hagen wrote:

basically you want to follow a shape; this is not that hard to implement so i can have a look at it; lettrines is then an instance of it

Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example. Greetings, Taco

Sorrry about that, last-minute change :-) VnPenguin wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 22:04:11 +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

In the src t-lettri.tex if I change

\def\LettrineFontEPS{#1}{%

David Wooten wrote:

Hmm, this is great. However, I can't seem to get it to accept an image (Image=true or Image=yes). Anyone else have some luck?

It couldn't work. Here is a new version, with fixed image support, some cleanups in the code, and support for per-argument setup functionality as provided by \LettrineOptionsFor{...} in LaTeX The one thing I could not/did not solve is how to make ConTeXt shut up about 'bodyfont 112.5pt is defined (can better be done global)'. I think I've covered all of lettrine.sty now, but I may have overlooked a bug or two ;-) Greetings, Taco

Gerben Wierda wrote:

how do you handle additions like this in your ConTeXt distribution? Will they become part of it for instance?

Hans usually asks authors whether they want the module to be part of the distribution. Mostly, authors say yes, but not always. This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should be part of standard ConTeXt. <<I guess that means I should submit it to CTAN>> Taco

Ciro A. Soto wrote:

So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set any parameter to allow hyphenation? I do have \tolerance=10000, because I don't like lines longer than the rest, but I thought I could still get some hyphenated words. Am I right?

Yes, you are right. Assuming you do not have very long lines and a small body font, it is quite possible that you are a victim of one of the recent hyphenation-file name confusions that have been plagueing recent TeX distributions. Try this: \showhyphens{hyphenation} It should print Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 2--2 [] \*10ptrmtf* hy-phen-ation on your terminal. If it doesn't, ConTeXt refuses the hyphenate English, possibly because the patterns were not loaded in the format (in that case, updating your ConTeXt is the easiest solution). Good luck, Taco

I have this 310-page book with a table of content that is alsways fine when I use a single page layout. When I switch to \setuparranging [2UP,rotated,doublesided] it also prints the table of content, however, if I rerun the job for a second time using the 2UP, the table of content disappears. Is it a bug or do I need to do something special? thank you Ciro

Ciro A. Soto wrote:

Thank you Taco, this is what I get. I got a *similar* line to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok? ciro

looks fine, so perhaps you have disabled hyphenation by using something like \setuptolerance[verytolerant], or they were truly unnecesary (it is possible) Taco

well, I did the test running texexec on a file containing only this line: \showhyphens{hyphenation} and got: TeXExec 5.2.4 - ConTeXt / PRAGMA ADE 1997-2005 executable : pdfetex format : cont-en inputfile : 4test output : pdftex interface : en current mode : none TeX run : 1 This is pdfeTeXk, Version 3.141592-1.20a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.3) \write18 enabled. %&-line parsing enabled. (/usr/local/texlive2004/texmf/web2c/natural.tcx) output format initialized to DVI entering extended mode (./4test.tex ConTeXt ver: 2004.11.17 fmt: 2005.1.30 int: english mes: english ...... Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 1--1 [] \*10ptrmtf* hyphenation ) I suppose there is a problem then ...right? c --- Patrick Gundlach wrote:

Hello Taco,

...

...

this is what I get. I got a *similar* line to what you sent, but not the same. Is it ok?

...

looks fine,

are you sure that the hyphenation configuration is the same in plain and ConTeXt? Perhaps it is a bit late for me, but I think that the test has to be done within ConTeXt to make sure about the correct hyphenation.

Patrick

PS: see you in France -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Try this: \showhyphens{hyphenation}

It should print

Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 2--2 [] \*10ptrmtf* hy-phen-ation

on your terminal. If it doesn't, ConTeXt refuses the hyphenate English, possibly because the patterns were not loaded in the format (in that case, updating your ConTeXt is the easiest solution).

the idea behind the language file posted some time ago is that we can create a testbed; [i can imagine that taco/patrick work out something for the mirror/wiki that unpacks the cont-tmf zip, tests format generation and missing things; kind of user download simulation] also, karl berry (tug, tex live, everything tex) is willing to set up a tex live related testbed for testing if that distributions are shipped 'correct', so if you have test files ... Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Ciro,

From a purely typographical point of view, a hyphenated word is always better than excessive space between words in a line (which is more discernable to the eye).

However, depending on column width, the language the text is typeset in, and the algorithm that is used for hyphenation & justification, some texts can be typeset without very few hyphens. But if a text is typeset without hyphenation - take a really good look at the word spacing. Chances are, they are large. BTW, it's easier to see excessive wordspacing if you hold the page upside down and squint with your eyes. Ok, here's something for the spacing aficionados: Take a look at "The art of spacing" by Bartels (Chicago, 1926). I have it at hand when I'm writing this. Not one hyphen in the whole book, not one excessive wordspace - and all last lines in paragraphs ending less than a one or two ems from the right margin. Beautiful, and probably mathematically impossible to achieve. If I don't remember wrong, DEK writes about Bartels in one of his books and suspects he rewrote the text while handsetting the lines. I would agree with that. Best regards, Mats Broberg

-----Original Message----- From: ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl [mailto:ntg-context-bounces@ntg.nl] On Behalf Of Ciro A. Soto Sent: den 26 februari 2005 18:08 To: mailing list for ConTeXt users Subject: [NTG-context] lack of hyphenation

The knowlegeable John Culleton said in one of the lists that he could recognize if a book was typeset with MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of hyphenation. I then checked my 310-page book I am typesetting with context and not a single line had a hyphenated word at the end.

So, my question is: Is it okay? or do I need to set any parameter to allow hyphenation? I do have \tolerance=10000, because I don't like lines longer than the rest, but I thought I could still get some hyphenated words. Am I right?

thank you Ciro

===== ================== Ciro A. Soto Author of "The Guitar Maker. An Exploration of Wisdom, Design and Love." Pub. Date: Aug. 2005.

"All problems are at the interface. Each one of them has a solution." _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Hello Hans,

...

MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of

but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)

Not yet :-) Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

Hello Hans,

...

...

MS-word by looking at the "rivers" and the lack of

but tex is *not* avoiding rivers, since it does not look at it -)

Not yet :-)

It is easy to make TeX look, but not as easy to make it see :-)

It has to do with grayness, so i wonder what happens if a paragraph would be converted into a bitmap and analyzed with a neural net Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:54:07 +0100, Mats Broberg wrote:

Dear listmembers,

I would say that the risk of getting rivers in text typeset using TeX & children is minimum, as long as you choose sensible values for typesize and column width. And much, much less than in MS Word, InDesign, QuarkXPress etc.

Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt:

- Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line etc. Catches your eye.

- Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not putting it in an \mbox.

- In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new paragraph, this last line is called "simple child of a whore". If the first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last paragraph, this line is called "double child of a whore". Now, in InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the "simple child of a whore" to the next page, and, for "double child of a whore", to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However, for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this, but it would be great if it was.

Best regards, Mats Broberg

Hej Mats! I would like to recommend the interesting document http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/style.pdf Mvh, Micke P PS Fun to see another swede here on the list DS

Mats Broberg wrote:

Btw, here are a few 'Typographical Dreams' of mine, regarding ConTeXt:

- Penalty if consecutive lines have the same words typeset exactly above each other - e.g. in the beginning of a line, in the middle of the line etc. Catches your eye.

since it has to do with extending tex ... that one is for patrick gundlach

- Penalty for a hyphenated word as the last word on a page. And not putting it in an \mbox.

hm, the problem with such things is that when tex breaks the page, the paragraph is already set; you're looking for some breed between widow/club and hyphenpenalties

- In Swedish, if the last line in a column is the first line in a new paragraph, this last line is called "simple child of a whore". If the first line on a new page is the last line of the preceding page's last paragraph, this line is called "double child of a whore". Now, in InDesign and QuarkXPress you can set the software to move over the "simple child of a whore" to the next page, and, for "double child of a whore", to move over a few extra lines to the new page. However, this leaves you with a page that is one or more lines short. When working in these software, you can then slightly, slightly increase the spacing between letters on the page (perhaps only a few thousands of an em). If you are lucky, one of the preceding paragraph expands just enough for its last line move over to a second line, and you're home free. However, for book projects hundreds of pages long, this is something you'd want to automate. Don't know if it is possible in ConTeXt to automate this, but it would be great if it was.

i did play with strategies and strategy passes long ago; strategies could be - make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller - make page slightly larger/smaller - increse/decrease bodyfont size - etc the problem is that one can end up in oscillating Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Mats Broberg wrote:

...

- make inter-column spacing a bit bigger/smaller - make page slightly larger/smaller - increse/decrease bodyfont size - etc

the problem is that one can end up in oscillating

Hans

Wouldn't it be possible to use something like \ballast, in the way it is used in the ledmac package for LaTeX?

I don't have the documentation at hand, but if I don't remember wrong, if e.g. a pagebreak starts oscillating, the value of the \ballast is subtracted from the set of different values that makes the pagebreak oscillate.

it depends a bit on what effect one wants to achieve, a local fix, say page 7-9),may as well spoil the one at page 123-127, which then spoils the toc, which in turn results in page 7 being messed up because the content moves to page 8, and a figure now ends up on a different side of the spread, and since in that doc graphic alignment is page dependent, we get yet more changes .... there is quote some two pass info going around and although it may look like things are ok (by looking are some pages) someplace else in the doc things may have gone wrong, which goes unnoticed for a while Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should be part of standard ConTeXt.

Why not? Thanks a lot for this port, Taco, it's great! Cheers, Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Gerben Wierda wrote:

...

...

how do you handle additions like this in your ConTeXt distribution? Will they become part of it for instance?

Hans usually asks authors whether they want the module to be part of the distribution. Mostly, authors say yes, but not always.

This is just a port of lettrine.sty, and I do not believe it should be part of standard ConTeXt. <<I guess that means I should submit it to CTAN>>

as usual taco is right -) the main challenge with such modules is to avoid name conflicts, not so much a problem for the taco's who know context inside out, but maybe tricky for others i can imagine something along the lines: - if someone has such a port, given that it has aproper namespace, as taco did with his module, it can end up in context/port/tryout - once a few people has looked at the code in order to uncover potential areas of conflict and/or to identify places that can be contexified [low level calls, fonts, etc], and when the code is tagged okay, it can move to context/port/final watch the lower alphabetic order, it will then overload pending copies in tryout - each module should have a test file that end up in context/port/test so that users can check if things work as expected being too rigourous is bad for development, but we need to have some rules/methods in order not to end up in a low level redefinition mess (not unthinkable when one converts from another macro package); of course we can always create - context/port/yourownrisk - context/port/zombie last in the search path as said by taco, ctan is the place to collect the files; each module can have a wiki page taco and i can make t-figurines into an example [reference] for such a model Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so I *should* be doing other stuff, but this is just a lot of fun, so here is the 3rd version, with three bugfixes - No more font messages (followed Hans' advice) - No more \sbox redefinition (used it's expansion instead) - The page breaks unless the lettrine actually fits (this is an independant improvement by me) This is the last version before EuroTeX. Really. ;-) Greetings, Taco h h extern wrote:

just do something

in setup: LettrineFont = Serif

in code: \definedfont[Serif at ...]

instead

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Mats Broberg wrote:

- I tested with the inital "H" and [Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.

That was a bug, so, although I promised I wouldn't do this ... here is version four. ;-)

- The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower case etc.

You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.

- Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".

I will keep this in mind for a future extension

- Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g. if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to control that would be great.

You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value. Greetings, Taco

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:34:44 +0100, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Mats Broberg wrote:

...

- I tested with the inital "H" and [Lines=4,Hang=.1,Nindent=20pt,Findent=20pt]. This makes the H itself be indented too (see enclosed dump). It seems that Findent adds space both before and after the dropcap, when it only should add after the dropcap.

That was a bug, so, although I promised I wouldn't do this ... here is version four. ;-)

...

- The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower case etc.

You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.

...

- Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".

I will keep this in mind for a future extension

...

- Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g. if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to control that would be great.

You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.

Greetings, Taco

Just tried the following code: ------------------------------------------------- \starttext \placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]} Voici a very silly \input tufte \blank[1cm] \placefigure[right]{none}{\externalfigure[foo][width=4cm,height=4cm]} \lettrine {V}{oici} a very silly \input tufte \stoptext -------------------------------------------------------------- There is a strange behaviour of \placefigure[right] when using \lettrine (see PDF at http://people.vnoss.org/~vnpenguin/pub/context/drop.pdf ) Any ideas ? Thanks, Q.

trivial question from a novice: What are the steps to use a new module like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file? what command should I type to make is available to context? etc... thank you ciro PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context from February 2005.

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto wrote:

trivial question from a novice: What are the steps to use a new module like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file? what command should I type to make is available to context? etc... thank you ciro

PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context from February 2005.

In teTeX 3.0 (FC3 box) I put the file t-lettri.tex in $HOME/texmf/tex/context/user/ and run command "texhash". That's all :) HTH, Q.

Hi Mats, I followed this thread. Basically the t-lettri.tex must be placed in a path known to TeX. Indeed if you place it in \base or \user this is the case. - In earlier discussion I think to remember that one could best create a directory \third (or similar) where such files can be placed. Kind regards Willi Mats Broberg wrote:

...

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 14:37:21 -0800 (PST), Ciro A. Soto wrote:

...

trivial question from a novice: What are the steps to use a new module like the lettrine.sty? Where do I put this file? what command should I type to make is available to context? etc... thank you ciro

PS: I am using Fedora Core 3 + texlive2004 + context from February 2005.

In teTeX 3.0 (FC3 box) I put the file t-lettri.tex in $HOME/texmf/tex/context/user/ and run command "texhash". That's all :)

HTH, Q.

OK, so this is the 'standard of procedure'? Not to put it in \base and run mktexlsr?

Best regards, Mats Broberg

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Another question, this one is for Hans: I tried your file from feb 27: supp-fu3.tex. I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex" and got: Undefined control sequence. \doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether {#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}... l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W} \input tufte \endgraf Where could be the problem? I see the definition of doDroppedCaps in the file, but .... thank you ciro

I tried this and the drop.tex example from Taco with texexec --pdf drop.tex but this ends in disaster: system : macros of module lettri loaded (./t-lettri.tex ! Illegal parameter number in definition of \LettrineFontEPS. <to be read again> 1 l.99 \def\LettrineFontEPS{#1 }{% ? x No pages of output. This is the latest ConTeXt beta. What am I doing wrong? G On 3 Mar 2005, at 08:09, Hans Hagen wrote:

Ciro A. Soto wrote:

...

Another question, this one is for Hans: I tried your file from feb 27: supp-fu3.tex. I typed "texexec --pdf supp-fu3.tex" and got: Undefined control sequence. \doDroppedCaps ...arindent \fi \keeplinestogether {#4}\setbox 0\hbox {#1{#6}... l.190 \NiceDroppedCaps {\red}{Serif}{0pt}{3}{W} \input tufte \endgraf Where could be the problem? I see the definition of doDroppedCaps in the file, but ....

i isolated some code and keeplinetogether is part of that; you can try the attached file (with your own samples; syntax slightly changed)

Hans

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

...

- The text font seems to be defaulted to small capitals. However, this is merely one of the conventions how text after a dropcap is set. Other conventions include e.g. roman or italic caps, roman or italic lower case etc.

You can set the 'TextFont' parameter to something else.

...

- Regarding the slope one should be able to set indentation separately for each line. This depends on the fact that some characters call for a different type of intendation of the lines - e.g. the character "L".

I will keep this in mind for a future extension

...

- Sometimes there is a need to indent the dropcap slightly itself, e.g. if one uses a quotation mark before the dropcap. So a parameter to control that would be great.

You can set the 'Hang' parameter to a negative value.

Many thanks! Best regards, Mats Broberg

h h extern wrote:

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

...

Lettrine is easier than that, actually. I thought this would be quite funny, so here is a brand new module called t-lettri.tex, and an example.

ah, nice, so, lettrines only does a slanted shape?

Yes, only slopes (both directions). And it allows the user to move the actual initial box to a `more pleasing' location.

\sbox is already definined and in use,

I will fix this (and write documentation), but I will not have time for that until after EuroTeX (march 7-11). If anybody wants stuff added that is not in lettrine.sty, feel free to tell me. Greetings, Taco

Mats Broberg said this at Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:51:04 +0100:

Different typefaces and different characters need different level of protruding into the left margin, as well as other actions of tweaking.

Ah, but when Hans says this:

it's a good testbed for playing with things like glyph shape similarity and such; also, proper alignment is an issue.

... it makes me think that these things may indeed be under consideration, as it sounds like hooks into the recently-improved Handling mechanisms. (And then fancy Lettrine handling sounds like it becomes 2-dimensional handling, then I start thinking about "Optical Kerning" features in Famous DTP Package and then I get dizzy, and need to sit down.) -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept. atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Lancaster University, InfoLab21 +44(0)1524/510.514 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

luigi.scarso schrieb:

I'm try do make something useful with Python and pdftex using swig. Any suggestions ?

Have you looked at pytex? It does nothing with pdftex, but I do not know what do you want to actually do. __Janko