Number in a circle

Kip Warner

27 May 2024 27 May '24

4:14 a.m.

Hello list, I would like to typeset a number in a circle. Nothing fancy. No special colours, transforms, or complex metapost magic (which I am not familiar with). I have tried \circled{3} and \textcircled{3}, but ConTeXt does not appear to recognize these commands. Any help appreciated. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

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Ryszard Kubiak

27 May 27 May

5:09 a.m.

Hi Kip, You may try characters with Unicode slots from U+2460 upto U+2469. They mean circled digits and are available in many fonts. Best, Ryszard pon., 27 maj 2024 o 06:39 Kip Warner napisał(a):

...

Hello list,

I would like to typeset a number in a circle. Nothing fancy. No special colours, transforms, or complex metapost magic (which I am not familiar with).

I have tried \circled{3} and \textcircled{3}, but ConTeXt does not appear to recognize these commands. Any help appreciated.

-- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror) archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net

___________________________________________________________________________________

Kip Warner

5:20 p.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 07:09 +0200, Ryszard Kubiak wrote:

...

Hi Kip,

You may try characters with Unicode slots from U+2460 upto U+2469. They mean circled digits and are available in many fonts.

Thanks Ryszard. Those would be perfect, except I can't get them to work in ConTeXt. I tried using the \utfchar{0x2460} but it just displays the number 1. I am assuming it needs a font that supports it, but I'm not sure how to switch to a supporting font just to typeset that character and then revert back. Is there some way to define a macro? -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Henning Hraban Ramm

28 May 28 May

6:17 a.m.

Am 27.05.24 um 19:20 schrieb Kip Warner:

...

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 07:09 +0200, Ryszard Kubiak wrote:

...
Hi Kip,

You may try characters with Unicode slots from U+2460 upto U+2469. They mean circled digits and are available in many fonts.

Thanks Ryszard. Those would be perfect, except I can't get them to work in ConTeXt. I tried using the \utfchar{0x2460} but it just displays the number 1.

I am assuming it needs a font that supports it, but I'm not sure how to switch to a supporting font just to typeset that character and then revert back. Is there some way to define a macro?

You could just define a fallback font, like: \definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no] \definetypeface [myfonts] [rm] [serif] [times] [default] [fallbacks=SymbolFB] And then copy the character from a symbol table, no need for a macro. Hraban

Kip Warner

9:49 p.m.

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 08:17 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

Am 27.05.24 um 19:20 schrieb Kip Warner:

...
On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 07:09 +0200, Ryszard Kubiak wrote:

...
Hi Kip,

You may try characters with Unicode slots from U+2460 upto U+2469. They mean circled digits and are available in many fonts.

Thanks Ryszard. Those would be perfect, except I can't get them to work in ConTeXt. I tried using the \utfchar{0x2460} but it just displays the number 1.

I am assuming it needs a font that supports it, but I'm not sure how to switch to a supporting font just to typeset that character and then revert back. Is there some way to define a macro?

You could just define a fallback font, like:

\definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no]

\definetypeface [myfonts] [rm] [serif] [times] [default] [fallbacks=SymbolFB]

And then copy the character from a symbol table, no need for a macro.

Hmm, that's a great idea. But I can't seem to get a minimal to work with https://context-on-web.eu: \definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no] \definetypeface [myfonts] [rm] [serif] [times] [default] [fallbacks=SymbolFB] \starttext \utfchar{0x02460} \stoptext The above just prints the vanilla character '1'. That might be because the online editor doesn't have access to the font. So I tried compiling the above locally with the Symbola.otf file in the same directory and same problem. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Henning Hraban Ramm

30 May 30 May

3:26 p.m.

Am 28.05.24 um 23:49 schrieb Kip Warner:

...

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 08:17 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...
Am 27.05.24 um 19:20 schrieb Kip Warner:

...

...
You could just define a fallback font, like:

\definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no]

\definetypeface [myfonts] [rm] [serif] [times] [default] [fallbacks=SymbolFB]

And then copy the character from a symbol table, no need for a macro.

Hmm, that's a great idea. But I can't seem to get a minimal to work with https://context-on-web.eu:

\definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no]

\definetypeface [myfonts] [rm] [serif] [times] [default] [fallbacks=SymbolFB]

\starttext \utfchar{0x02460} \stoptext

The above just prints the vanilla character '1'. That might be because the online editor doesn't have access to the font. So I tried compiling the above locally with the Symbola.otf file in the same directory and same problem.

My example wasn’t complete, and so is yours. You just define that typeface but never use it. Hraban

Kip Warner

9:18 p.m.

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 17:26 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

My example wasn’t complete, and so is yours. You just define that typeface but never use it.

I'm probably doing it wrong, but I still can't get it to work: \definefontfallback[SymbolFB] [file:symbola.otf] [0x00300-0x003FF,0x02100-0x02800,0x1F000-0x20000] % look up the right Unicode ranges! [check=no,force=no] \definetypeface[circle_typeface][rm][serif][times][default][fallbacks=SymbolFB] \starttext Some text in default font before temporarily switching just for this number: {\switchtobodyfont[circle_typeface] \utfchar{0x02460}} And back to normal text. \stoptext -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

seyal zavira

27 May 27 May

9:43 a.m.

if you don't want to use metapost you can also use svg for background for example: \startuniqueMPgraphic{centered_svg} draw lmt_svg [ filename = "badge.svg", width = OverlayWidth, y = OverlayHeight/2, ] ; \stopuniqueMPgraphic \defineoverlay [svgback] [\useMPgraphic{centered_svg}] \defineframed[Sback][location=low,background=svgback,frame=off,offset=8pt] \starttext this is a sample \Sback{1} text \stoptext On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 12:38 AM Kip Warner wrote:

...

Hello list,

I would like to typeset a number in a circle. Nothing fancy. No special colours, transforms, or complex metapost magic (which I am not familiar with).

I have tried \circled{3} and \textcircled{3}, but ConTeXt does not appear to recognize these commands. Any help appreciated.

-- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror) archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net

___________________________________________________________________________________

Kip Warner

5:23 p.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 05:43 -0400, seyal zavira wrote:

...

if you don't want to use metapost you can also use svg for background for example:

\startuniqueMPgraphic{centered_svg} draw lmt_svg [ filename = "badge.svg", width = OverlayWidth, y = OverlayHeight/2, ] ; \stopuniqueMPgraphic

\defineoverlay [svgback] [\useMPgraphic{centered_svg}]

\defineframed[Sback][location=low,background=svgback,frame=off,offset =8pt]

\starttext this is a sample \Sback{1} text \stoptext

Hello Seyal, This does work but it's a bit annoying that I have to create an SVG of just a circle and store it somewhere. I'm fine with using MetaPost, especially if it makes this easier, but I just don't know how. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Wolfgang Schuster

5:44 p.m.

Kip Warner schrieb am 27.05.2024 um 19:23:

...

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 05:43 -0400, seyal zavira wrote:

...
if you don't want to use metapost you can also use svg for background for example:

\startuniqueMPgraphic{centered_svg} draw lmt_svg [ filename = "badge.svg", width = OverlayWidth, y = OverlayHeight/2, ] ; \stopuniqueMPgraphic

\defineoverlay [svgback] [\useMPgraphic{centered_svg}]

\defineframed[Sback][location=low,background=svgback,frame=off,offset=8pt]

\starttext this is a sample \Sback{1} text \stoptext

Hello Seyal,

This does work but it's a bit annoying that I have to create an SVG of just a circle and store it somewhere. I'm fine with using MetaPost, especially if it makes this easier, but I just don't know how.

You can use the \framed solution and modify it to use a metapost graphic as background, it also easy to replace the circle with a hexagon etc. \startuseMPgraphic{textcircle} draw fullcircle xscaled OverlayWidth yscaled OverlayWidth withcolor OverlayLineColor ; \stopuseMPgraphic \defineoverlay[textcircle][\useMPgraphic{textcircle}] \defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, frame=off, background=textcircle, location=low, offset=none] \starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext Wolfgang

Kip Warner

28 May 28 May

4:29 a.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 19:44 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

You can use the \framed solution and modify it to use a metapost graphic as background, it also easy to replace the circle with a hexagon etc.

\startuseMPgraphic{textcircle} draw fullcircle xscaled OverlayWidth yscaled OverlayWidth withcolor OverlayLineColor ; \stopuseMPgraphic

\defineoverlay[textcircle][\useMPgraphic{textcircle}]

\defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, frame=off, background=textcircle, location=low, offset=none]

\starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Thank you again Wolfgang. This is very helpful and works well. One question I have for you is how to set the colour of the circle to match the other text on my page. I currently do the following in my environment file: \definecolor[colour_text][r=0.754,g=0.516,b=0.324] \setupcolors[state=start,textcolor=colour_text,pagecolormodel=rgb] -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Wolfgang Schuster

3:38 p.m.

Kip Warner schrieb am 28.05.2024 um 06:29:

...

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 19:44 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
You can use the \framed solution and modify it to use a metapost graphic as background, it also easy to replace the circle with a hexagon etc.

\startuseMPgraphic{textcircle} draw fullcircle xscaled OverlayWidth yscaled OverlayWidth withcolor OverlayLineColor ; \stopuseMPgraphic

\defineoverlay[textcircle][\useMPgraphic{textcircle}]

\defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, frame=off, background=textcircle, location=low, offset=none]

\starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Thank you again Wolfgang. This is very helpful and works well.

One question I have for you is how to set the colour of the circle to match the other text on my page. I currently do the following in my environment file:

\definecolor[colour_text][r=0.754,g=0.516,b=0.324]

\setupcolors[state=start,textcolor=colour_text,pagecolormodel=rgb]

Add framecolor=colour_text, to the frame settings. Wolfgang

Kip Warner

10:02 p.m.

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 17:38 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Add

framecolor=colour_text,

to the frame settings.

Thanks Wolfgang. That does work. But another problem I've found is the font and circle are not automatically resized when used in a formula: \definecolor[colour_text][r=0.754,g=0.516,b=0.324] % RGB 0xc08453 \setupcolors[ state=start, textcolor=colour_text, pagecolormodel=rgb] % gray rgb cmyk auto none % Commands for MetaPost interpreter to draw a circle... \startuseMPgraphic{textcircle} draw fullcircle xscaled OverlayWidth yscaled OverlayWidth withcolor OverlayLineColor; \stopuseMPgraphic % Define an overlay using the above image... \defineoverlay[textcircle][\useMPgraphic{textcircle}] % Define a frame we can use via \textcircled{X} that uses as its background % the above overlay... \defineframed [textcircled] [width=1.4em, height=1.4em, frame=off, background=textcircle, framecolor=colour_text, location=low, offset=none] \starttext Here are the numbers \textcircled{1}, \textcircled{2}, and \textcircled{3}. And when used in formula, \math{\Sigma_{i^b x_{\textcircled{3}}^i}} \stoptext What I was hoping would happen there was the circled 3 in the formula would shrink to look like a subscript for the x variable. Any help appreciated. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Kip Warner

29 May 29 May

4:52 a.m.

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 15:02 -0700, Kip Warner wrote:

...

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 17:38 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
Add

framecolor=colour_text,

to the frame settings.

Thanks Wolfgang. That does work.

But another problem I've found is the font and circle are not automatically resized when used in a formula:

\definecolor[colour_text][r=0.754,g=0.516,b=0.324] % RGB 0xc08453 \setupcolors[ state=start, textcolor=colour_text, pagecolormodel=rgb] % gray rgb cmyk auto none % Commands for MetaPost interpreter to draw a circle... \startuseMPgraphic{textcircle} draw fullcircle xscaled OverlayWidth yscaled OverlayWidth withcolor OverlayLineColor; \stopuseMPgraphic % Define an overlay using the above image... \defineoverlay[textcircle][\useMPgraphic{textcircle}] % Define a frame we can use via \textcircled{X} that uses as its background % the above overlay... \defineframed [textcircled] [width=1.4em, height=1.4em, frame=off, background=textcircle, framecolor=colour_text, location=low, offset=none] \starttext Here are the numbers \textcircled{1}, \textcircled{2}, and \textcircled{3}. And when used in formula, \math{\Sigma_{i^b x_{\textcircled{3}}^i}} \stoptext

What I was hoping would happen there was the circled 3 in the formula would shrink to look like a subscript for the x variable. Any help appreciated.

Wolfgang, please don't tax yourself further on this. I've managed to find another way of expressing the same ideas in my publication without having to resort to the above magic. Thanks again. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Wolfgang Schuster

27 May 27 May

2:51 p.m.

Kip Warner schrieb am 27.05.2024 um 06:14:

...

Hello list,

I would like to typeset a number in a circle. Nothing fancy. No special colours, transforms, or complex metapost magic (which I am not familiar with).

I have tried \circled{3} and \textcircled{3}, but ConTeXt does not appear to recognize these commands. Any help appreciated.

I can't provide a circle but I can give you a box with rounded corners. \defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, location=low, corner=round, radius=.5fw, offset=none] \starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext Wolfgang

Kip Warner

5:10 p.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 16:51 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

I can't provide a circle but I can give you a box with rounded corners.

\defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, location=low, corner=round, radius=.5fw, offset=none]

\starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Thanks Wolfgang. I gave it a try on https://context-on-web.eu/, but it failed: Dimensions can be in units of em, ex, in, pt, pc, cm, mm, dd, cc, bp, dk, or54sp; but yours is a new one! I'll assume that you meant to say pt, for printer's55points. two letters. I'm not sure what it is referring to. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Wolfgang Schuster

5:28 p.m.

Kip Warner schrieb am 27.05.2024 um 19:10:

...

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 16:51 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...
I can't provide a circle but I can give you a box with rounded corners.

\defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, location=low, corner=round, radius=.5fw, offset=none]

\starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Thanks Wolfgang. I gave it a try on https://context-on-web.eu/, but it failed:

Dimensions can be in units of em, ex, in, pt, pc, cm, mm, dd, cc, bp, dk, or54sp; but yours is a new one! I'll assume that you meant to say pt, for printer's55points. two letters.

I'm not sure what it is referring to.

TeX complains about the value ".5fw" for the radius key. Hans added last year the function to add new units to ConTeXt and I used it to set the radius to half of the width of the framed box. Use the following version of the setup for the frame which works with older ConTeXt installations because it doesn't use the feature. \defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, location=low, corner=round, %radius=.5fw, radius=\dimexpr\framedwidth/2\relax, offset=none] \starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext Wolfgang

Kip Warner

5:33 p.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 19:28 +0200, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

TeX complains about the value ".5fw" for the radius key. Hans added last year the function to add new units to ConTeXt and I used it to set the radius to half of the width of the framed box.

Use the following version of the setup for the frame which works with older ConTeXt installations because it doesn't use the feature.

\defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.5em, height=1.5em, location=low, corner=round, %radius=.5fw, radius=\dimexpr\framedwidth/2\relax, offset=none]

\starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Thank you kindly, Wolfgang. That worked perfectly. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

vm

6:15 p.m.

if you make width and hwight 1.4en instead of 1.5em, the characters will align with the running text. \defineframed [textcircled] [ width=1.4em, height=1.4em, location=low, corner=round, %radius=.5fw, radius=\dimexpr\framedwidth/2\relax, offset=none] \starttext \dostepwiserecurse{0}{9}{1}{#1 = \textcircled{#1}\blank} \stoptext

Kip Warner

28 May 28 May

9:37 p.m.

On Mon, 2024-05-27 at 20:15 +0200, vm wrote:

...

if you make width and hwight 1.4en instead of 1.5em, the characters will align with the running text.

Thank you. I will give that a try. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Pablo Rodriguez

3:47 p.m.

On 5/27/24 19:10, Kip Warner wrote:

...

[...] Thanks Wolfgang. I gave it a try on https://context-on-web.eu/, but it failed:

Dimensions can be in units of em, ex, in, pt, pc, cm, mm, dd, cc, bp, dk, or54sp; but yours is a new one! I'll assume that you meant to say pt, for printer's55points. two letters.

I'm not sure what it is referring to.

fw is a new dimensio unit only available in LMTX (not in LuaTeX). Just in case it might help, Pablo

Pablo Rodriguez

3:50 p.m.

On 5/28/24 17:47, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

...

On 5/27/24 19:10, Kip Warner wrote:

...
[...] to say pt, for printer's55points. two letters.

I'm not sure what it is referring to.

fw is a new dimensio unit only available in LMTX (not in LuaTeX).

Sorry for the noise. I didn’t see that there were new messages and the proper answer from Wolfgang among these. Pablo

Kip Warner

9:50 p.m.

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 17:47 +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...

fw is a new dimensio unit only available in LMTX (not in LuaTeX).

Just in case it might help,

Thanks Pablo. I'm using the context package for Ubuntu Mantic which is version 2021.03.05.20230120+dfsg-2. I'm assuming that doesn't support the new unit. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Henning Hraban Ramm

30 May 30 May

3:22 p.m.

Am 28.05.24 um 23:50 schrieb Kip Warner:

...

On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 17:47 +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...
fw is a new dimensio unit only available in LMTX (not in LuaTeX).

Just in case it might help,

Thanks Pablo. I'm using the context package for Ubuntu Mantic which is version 2021.03.05.20230120+dfsg-2. I'm assuming that doesn't support the new unit.

No. Debian/Ubuntu is known for outdated TeX Live packages. It doesn’t matter as long as it works for you, but on this mailing list we tend to assume latest versions. See "Integrating vanilla TeX Live with Debian" in https://wiki.debian.org/TeXLive how to replace TeX Live from your Linux distribution with a current version. You can also install an additional ConTeXt LMTX, just be careful about your PATH. https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation Hraban

Kip Warner

4:18 p.m.

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 17:22 +0200, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

Am 28.05.24 um 23:50 schrieb Kip Warner:

...
On Tue, 2024-05-28 at 17:47 +0200, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...
fw is a new dimensio unit only available in LMTX (not in LuaTeX).

Just in case it might help,

Thanks Pablo. I'm using the context package for Ubuntu Mantic which is version 2021.03.05.20230120+dfsg-2. I'm assuming that doesn't support the new unit.

No. Debian/Ubuntu is known for outdated TeX Live packages.

It doesn’t matter as long as it works for you, but on this mailing list we tend to assume latest versions.

See "Integrating vanilla TeX Live with Debian" in https://wiki.debian.org/TeXLive how to replace TeX Live from your Linux distribution with a current version.

You can also install an additional ConTeXt LMTX, just be careful about your PATH. https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Installation

Thanks Hrabab. With respect to the latter wiki page, the project might consider adding a PPA. They're very popular among the over a hundred different Debian based distros out there. They reconcile both system requirements of proper FHS usage and file tracking by the system package manager with the user's need to use the latest stable or nightly. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Thomas A. Schmitz

4:26 p.m.

On 30.05.24 18:18, Kip Warner wrote:

...

Thanks Hrabab. With respect to the latter wiki page, the project might consider adding a PPA. They're very popular among the over a hundred different Debian based distros out there. They reconcile both system requirements of proper FHS usage and file tracking by the system package manager with the user's need to use the latest stable or nightly.

Is this a message "I'm volunteering to maintain such a ppa" or a message "wouldn't it be nice if someone went out of their way to make my life easier"? Just out of curiosity. Thomas

Kip Warner

5:25 p.m.

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 18:26 +0200, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

...

Is this a message "I'm volunteering to maintain such a ppa" or a message "wouldn't it be nice if someone went out of their way to make my life easier"? Just out of curiosity.

Right now it's the latter due to time constraints. Although I have helped a number of free software projects get PPAs up and running. Usually once they're up there's not much to do after. Since ConTeXt is already Debianized by the Debian project, you probably can start with their debian/ folder, edit as needed, and then you should be good. You can also set an automatic build recipe in the PPA so each commit to SCM results in a new nightly. You'll get a lot more people using and testing your newer release this way. Food for thought. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Henning Hraban Ramm

8:19 p.m.

Am 30.05.24 um 19:25 schrieb Kip Warner:

...

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 18:26 +0200, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote:

...
Is this a message "I'm volunteering to maintain such a ppa" or a message "wouldn't it be nice if someone went out of their way to make my life easier"? Just out of curiosity.

Right now it's the latter due to time constraints. Although I have helped a number of free software projects get PPAs up and running.

Usually once they're up there's not much to do after. Since ConTeXt is already Debianized by the Debian project, you probably can start with their debian/ folder, edit as needed, and then you should be good. You can also set an automatic build recipe in the PPA so each commit to SCM results in a new nightly.

You'll get a lot more people using and testing your newer release this way. Food for thought.

I can assure you the worldwide TeX community has thought about their approach a few times. TeX Live packaging (i.e. mostly LaTeX packaging) is different to Linux packaging. Somebody explained it to me in detail, but I can’t remember… At least TeX Live’s yearly release setup doesn’t fit… well, anything else (I find it annoying). But for release date, many of the active contributors make sure everything fits together. ConTeXt is different in that the distribution is closely coupled to binary versions. It would be possible to set up a PPA independent of TeX Live, I guess. (Have binary & macros in the same package, maybe docs & fonts separate…) But somebody would have to maintain it. Hraban

Bruce Horrocks

10:20 p.m.

...

On 30 May 2024, at 21:19, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 30.05.24 um 19:25 schrieb Kip Warner:

...
...
Is this a message "I'm volunteering to maintain such a ppa" or a message "wouldn't it be nice if someone went out of their way to make my life easier"? Just out of curiosity. Right now it's the latter due to time constraints. Although I have helped a number of free software projects get PPAs up and running. Usually once they're up there's not much to do after. Since ConTeXt is already Debianized by the Debian project, you probably can start with

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 18:26 +0200, Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: their debian/ folder, edit as needed, and then you should be good. You can also set an automatic build recipe in the PPA so each commit to SCM results in a new nightly. You'll get a lot more people using and testing your newer release this way. Food for thought.

I can assure you the worldwide TeX community has thought about their approach a few times. TeX Live packaging (i.e. mostly LaTeX packaging) is different to Linux packaging. Somebody explained it to me in detail, but I can’t remember… At least TeX Live’s yearly release setup doesn’t fit… well, anything else (I find it annoying). But for release date, many of the active contributors make sure everything fits together.

ConTeXt is different in that the distribution is closely coupled to binary versions. It would be possible to set up a PPA independent of TeX Live, I guess. (Have binary & macros in the same package, maybe docs & fonts separate…) But somebody would have to maintain it.

I'd be able to maintain a Context PPA but there already seems to be one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/context The dates on that page confuse me, however. It says the last upload of the package was 2023-05-05 but that it somehow contains the Context version from 2024-04-09. I'm not quite sure how that can be the case? Also it's not clear to me whether that PPA is Context alone or TeXlive plus a bunch of TeX stuff including Context? (I could install it of course.) :-) — Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK

Kip Warner

11:05 p.m.

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 23:20 +0100, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

...

I'd be able to maintain a Context PPA but there already seems to be one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/context

I think that's just the source used in Ubuntu. This is called a "source package" in the Debian parlance: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html But if you click the "Other versions of 'context' in untrusted archives" at the bottom of the page it will show you PPAs. There appears to be three, all of which are ancient. Just so you know, Ubuntu source packages are just Debian source packages, but often with some downstream patches. The Debian source package is what ends up in endless distros. Probably most lay users who use ConTeXt outside of building from a tarball or putting somewhere outside of the FHS are using some Debian distro derivative's package via: $ sudo apt install context Unless the Debian package is updated, usually downstream derivative distros won't update their own. For that reason if you want to affect the most change for the most users it's best to do so here: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/context Over a hundred distros just recycle the above source package and its resulting binaries. Usually Debian is slow to update their packages, depending on who is assigned as package maintainer. Because of that, this is part of the reason why PPAs are popular because they shorten the time for lay users to try the new version without having to fiddle with paths, tarballs, etc. Once you have a PPA up, to build binary packages the builder does the same as the ones used by the Debian project. You upload a Debian source package and it will then go and build and test the resulting binary packages. After that it injects them into the APT repository (which is all a PPA is). -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Bruce Horrocks

1 Jun 1 Jun

12:48 a.m.

On 31 May 2024, at 00:05, Kip Warner wrote:

...

On Thu, 2024-05-30 at 23:20 +0100, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

...
I'd be able to maintain a Context PPA but there already seems to be one: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/context

I think that's just the source used in Ubuntu. This is called a "source package" in the Debian parlance:

https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html

Ah yes. I was thinking that launchpad.net was a Debian PPA but I see now that it is Ubuntu only, albeit users of other distros can install from it if they know the 'magic' command line trickery.

...

But if you click the "Other versions of 'context' in untrusted archives" at the bottom of the page it will show you PPAs. There appears to be three, all of which are ancient.

Of the three, the "ConTeXt daily builds" owned by Adam Reviczky seems to be up-to-date, just not listed in date order so it's not as obvious as it might be. If I understand the odd naming convention correctly, he has updated Ubuntu versions 18.04, 20.04, 22.04, 23.04 and 24.04 with the version of Context current as at 2024-05-29. So presumably Ubuntu users of those versions can get the latest Context by running an 'apt install context' command?

...

Just so you know, Ubuntu source packages are just Debian source packages, but often with some downstream patches. The Debian source package is what ends up in endless distros.

Probably most lay users who use ConTeXt outside of building from a tarball or putting somewhere outside of the FHS are using some Debian distro derivative's package via:

$ sudo apt install context

Unless the Debian package is updated, usually downstream derivative distros won't update their own. For that reason if you want to affect the most change for the most users it's best to do so here:

https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/context

According to https://packages.debian.org/experimental/context Debian 'experimental' is up-to-date with ConTeXT as of 2024-04-01. This is for the experimental release of course, but it does mean that the package is being maintained. Just that the release schedule of Debian is so slow. :-( Or put another way, I don't think the issues we're seeing are due to lack of maintainer effort but rather a result of the way Debian does releases.

...

Over a hundred distros just recycle the above source package and its resulting binaries.

Usually Debian is slow to update their packages, depending on who is assigned as package maintainer. Because of that, this is part of the reason why PPAs are popular because they shorten the time for lay users to try the new version without having to fiddle with paths, tarballs, etc.

Once you have a PPA up, to build binary packages the builder does the same as the ones used by the Debian project. You upload a Debian source package and it will then go and build and test the resulting binary packages. After that it injects them into the APT repository (which is all a PPA is).

I'm not sure there is a need to do any more than Adam Reviczky is already doing. When I find a bit of time I'll install a Ubuntu 24.04 into a VM and see what version of Context is installed, likewise Debian. — Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK

Bruce Horrocks

4 Jun 4 Jun

5:19 p.m.

...

On 1 Jun 2024, at 01:48, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

I'm not sure there is a need to do any more than Adam Reviczky is already doing. When I find a bit of time I'll install a Ubuntu 24.04 into a VM and see what version of Context is installed, likewise Debian.

TL;DR: OMG! I thought Ubuntu was supposed to be Linux made easy? 1) I installed Ubuntu 14.04 It comes with context pre-installed but it's broken. bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:-$ which context /usr/bin/context bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:~$ context --version mtxrun | unknown script 'mtx-context.lua' or 'mtx-mtx-context.lua' 2) I removed the pre-installed context, added the reviczky PPA from launchpad.net as an alternative package source and re-installed. bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:~$ sudo apt remove context [output snipped] bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:-$ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:reviczky [output snipped] bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:-$ sudo apt install context [output snipped] bruce@bruce-VMware-Virtual-Platform:~$ context --version mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04 mtx-context | mtx-context | main context file: /usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv mtx-context | current version: 2023.05.05 18:36 mtx-context | main context file: /usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkxl/context.mkxl mtx-context | current version: 2023.05.05 18:36 This at least works but it's an ancient version. I couldn't find any way to access the 2024 dated version referenced in the PPA/launchpad site. Conclusion: Not sure where this leaves us. Ubutu complained about the PPA ot having a 'release' file - so this may be a bug with the PPS config which is stopping Ubuntu from downloading from that PPA. Or it may be this will bnever work? Whatever the problem is, the suggestion of getting Context into the Deb build seems like the way to go. — Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK

Kip Warner

6 p.m.

On Tue, 2024-06-04 at 18:19 +0100, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

...

1) I installed Ubuntu 14.04 It comes with context pre-installed but it's broken.

Hey Bruce. Just an FYI, but Trusty Tahr (14.04) is over a decade old. -- Kip Warner OpenPGP signed/encrypted mail preferred https://www.thevertigo.com

Bruce Horrocks

8:44 p.m.

...

On 4 Jun 2024, at 19:00, Kip Warner wrote:

On Tue, 2024-06-04 at 18:19 +0100, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

...
1) I installed Ubuntu 14.04 It comes with context pre-installed but it's broken.

Hey Bruce. Just an FYI, but Trusty Tahr (14.04) is over a decade old.

Typo - 24.04 (phew!) — Bruce Horrocks Hampshire, UK

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