On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:40 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

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The discussion

Before I start to give you information about my module and give you the chance to mention your own wishes or thoughts about the inteface I'm interested what do you use currently to write you own correspondence (letter, invoices etc.).

This may be a surprise, but I use only oowriter/oocalc currently. Why?

* I have many different envelopes to cater for, with and without address windows.

* I sometimes need DIN letters, but sometimes just an informal note to accompany an item

* Quite a bit of correspondence is invoices and quotes, with automatic calculations in them (VAT etc).

Most of this can be done in tex/luatex of course, but it is a lot of effort compared to hitting <enter> a few extra times in oowriter. Now, if there was a great letter module for context .... ;-)

Happy to read that I'm not the only one ! But with a « great letter module » (with french positions, of course :))… Olivier. -- [Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ] Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com

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Happy to read that I'm not the only one ! But with a « great letter module » (with french positions, of course :))…

Show me a few example or give me values for the positions (address block, opening, line distance etc.)

I can only provide solutions if you give me information.

Of course. I must find them… maybe the french association of TeX user. What do you think about a wiki page about this in order to put all the specifications ? Cheers, Olivier. -- [Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ] Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com

"Wolfgang Schuster" writes:

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The discussion

Before I start to give you information about my module and give you the chance to mention your own wishes or thoughts about the inteface I'm interested what do you use currently to write you own correspondence (letter, invoices etc.).

[...]

But with a « great letter module » (with french positions, of course :))…

Show me a few example or give me values for the positions (address block, opening, line distance etc.)

I use myself the lettre (and not letter :) package [1] for LaTeX. It is easy to use, clean but maybe a bit old in the way to do things (mainly because of the 'Concerne' stuff). But it gives a good example of how have to be letters in Suisse Romande and France. My 2 cents worth, A+ -AJ [1] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/lettre.html

"Wolfgang Schuster" writes:

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Antoine Junod wrote:

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"Wolfgang Schuster" writes:

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The discussion

Before I start to give you information about my module and give you the chance to mention your own wishes or thoughts about the inteface I'm interested what do you use currently to write you own correspondence (letter, invoices etc.).

[...]

But with a « great letter module » (with french positions, of course :))…

Show me a few example or give me values for the positions (address block, opening, line distance etc.)

I use myself the lettre (and not letter :) package [1] for LaTeX. It is easy to use, clean but maybe a bit old in the way to do things (mainly because of the 'Concerne' stuff). But it gives a good example of how have to be letters in Suisse Romande and France.

[1] http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/lettre.html

Hi Antoine,

I will made a still based on the examples in the manual.

Thanks you chief :) A+ -AJ

On Thu, Apr 17 2008, Taco Hoekwater wrote:

* Quite a bit of correspondence is invoices and quotes, with automatic calculations in them (VAT etc).

Hello Taco, Quite funny: Just 3 days ago, I wrote t-invoice.tex for my personal needs, just 1 command and very very simple: \startInvoice \invoiceItem[description=Ballon eau chaude, price={5063,4 + 1115,87}] \invoiceItem[description=Vase d'expansion, price={386,25}] \invoiceItem[description=Plan d'implantation du bâtiment, price={257,14}] \invoiceItem[description=Branchement d'eau, price={2891,62}] \stopInvoice \stopInvoice prints the total. Here the definitions (can be enhanced and/or wikified): \startluacode -- namespace thirddata = thirddata or { } thirddata.invoices = {} thirddata.invoices.total = 0 thirddata.invoices.pos = 1 -- get price with right format -- p: the price -- return price with right format function thirddata.invoices.format(p) local s = string.format("%.2f", p) s = s:gsub("%.", ",") return s end -- print new item -- d: the description -- p: the price function thirddata.invoices.new_item(d, p) thirddata.invoices.total = thirddata.invoices.total + p tex.print("\\bTR\\bTD" .. string.format("%03d", thirddata.invoices.pos) .. "\\eTD\\bTD " .. d .. "\\eTD\\bTD " .. thirddata.invoices.format(p) .. "\\eTD\\eTR") thirddata.invoices.pos = thirddata.invoices.pos + 1 end \stopluacode \def\invoiceItem{\dosingleargument\doinvoiceItem} \def\doinvoiceItem[#1]{\getparameters[IV][#1] \ctxlua{thirddata.invoices.new_item("\IVdescription", \ctxlua{local s = string.gsub("\IVprice", ",", "."); tex.print(s)})}} \def\invoiceTotal{% \ctxlua{tex.print(thirddata.invoices.format(thirddata.invoices.total))}} \def\startInvoice{\start \setupTABLE[frame=off,textwidth=\textwidth,option=stretch] \setupTABLE[r][first][bottomframe=on] \setupTABLE[r][2,last][top=\blank] \setupTABLE[c][first,2][align=flushleft] \setupTABLE[c][last][align={flushright,lohi}] \bTABLE\bTR\bTH Position \eTH\bTH Description \eTH\bTH Prix \eTH\eTR} \def\stopInvoice{\bTR\bTD[nc=2,align=flushright]Total:\eTD \bTD \invoiceTotal\eTD\eTR\eTABLE\stop} Cheers, Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:

Hi Wolfgang,

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:13:54 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

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Take the following minimal example

\usemodule[letter]

\setupletter [sender] [name={Mike Meiers}, address={Mustergasse 12\\25694 Musterstadt}]

\setupletter [address] [name={Hans Hansen}, address={Zielweg 34\\78561 Tiny Town}]

\starttext

\startletter [opening={Dear Hans,}]

letter text

\stopletter

\stoptext

You need a closing ("Sincerely,") and signature, and don't forget enough topspace to accommodate a company logo/letterhead :-)

You set closing and signature also with the optional argument for \startletter \startletter [opening=Dear Idris\textcomma, closing=Sincerely\textcomma, signature=Wolfgang Schuster] You could define your own letterhead but by default I use just name and address from the sender.

FWIW: Here is the basic structure of my setup (based on someone else's work, I forget his name): ================= \protect

%\setuppapersize[A4][A4] \setuppapersize[letter][letter]

\setuplayout[header=.5in, topspace=1.37in, backspace=1.5in, footer=0mm, %header=0in, %,width=middle, width=middle, lines=60, height=middle] % margins etc.

\setupbodyfontenvironment[default][em=italic] \setuppagenumbering[state=stop]

\long\def\addresser#1{\leavevmode\blank[1*line] \lbox{#1}}

% Defines field for receiver's address and places it at right position. \long\def\addressee#1{\rbox{#1}}

% Subject line, in bold face. \long\def\lettersubject#1{\blank[2*line]{\BF %Re: #1}}

\long\def\letteropening#1{\blank[line]#1} % opening...

\definestartstop [letter] [before={\blank[line]\setupwhitespace[medium]}, after={}]

\long\def\letterclosing#1#2{\vbox{\blank[line]#1\blank[3*line]#2}} % and the closing formula

\unprotect

Simple but working solution but a formal german requires a little bit more work because most of the field use fixed positions whereas blocks styles are written from top to bottom and each field use only as much space as the text needs. Wolfgang

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:34 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 2008-04-17 um 17:08 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

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You need a closing ("Sincerely,") and signature, and don't forget enough topspace to accommodate a company logo/letterhead :-)

You set closing and signature also with the optional argument for \startletter

\startletter [opening=Dear Idris\textcomma, closing=Sincerely\textcomma, signature=Wolfgang Schuster]

Would you support an externalfigure for the signature?

e.g.

Yours, [my fancy signature graphics] Henning Hraban Ramm

You could write \setupletter [data] [signature={\externalfigure[my_fancy_signature][height=2\lineheight]}] Greetings Wolfgang

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 4:17 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 2008-04-17 um 10:13 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

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Before I start to give you information about my module and give you the chance to mention your own wishes or thoughts about the inteface I'm interested what do you use currently to write you own correspondence (letter, invoices etc.).

I normally use InDesign for my business letters and invoices.

Dou you use a template for your letters. LaTeX has two packages to create invoices and we could also have one for ConTeXt but it makes only sense to use it with LuaTeX, TeX's arithmetic to limited for longer calculations.

But I coded my last job applications completely in ConTeXt and adapted Holger Schöner's environment for my needs.

I remember it was not that easy to get my address and logo exactly in the same places as in my InDesign template - I use sheets with some pre-printed elements.

Another problem were different letter heads for first, odd and even pages.

Different header for the first and another one for the following headers is simple and possible with my module. The option to change the layout for odd and even pages is currently not supported but should be possible but it has to be integrated in the normal interface.

(It would have been *much* easier to use InDesign for that stuff, like for most other designs that I do...)

This is also possible with ConTeXt because you could setup layers to place content dependent on left and right pages and the page layout could also change for left and right pages as long as you don't change the text width. Wolfgang

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 5:32 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 2008-04-17 um 16:32 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

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I normally use InDesign for my business letters and invoices. Dou you use a template for your letters.

Not an InDesign template file (.idt), but a single document (with master pages) for every purpose (German/Swiss/English, letter/ invoice, private/business) that I overwrite every time. (I save a copy if the matter is important.)

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LaTeX has two packages to create invoices and we could also have one for ConTeXt but it makes only sense to use it with LuaTeX, TeX's arithmetic to limited for longer calculations.

For other purposes I simply write my TeX code with a script, mostly only one file that contains the "dynamical" data and gets included.

E.g. - cover for backup CD/DVDs (that script even has a GUI - it reads a disk; shows the directory tree, so you can select which parts you'd like to be visible; writes a TeX file; calls ConTeXt and opens the PDF)

- my address book (pulls and formats data from a MySQL database)

- business cards for one big company (I receive an Excel file with personnel data, save it as CSV and "convert" that to ConTeXt, PDF with one page per person gets imposed and printed on cardboard with pre-printed logo)

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Another problem were different letter heads for first, odd and even pages.

Different header for the first and another one for the following headers is simple and possible with my module. The option to change the layout for odd and even pages is currently not supported but should be possible but it has to be integrated in the normal interface.

My sheets have a pre-printed logo, I use the same for all pages of a letter.

On the first page I need address and bank data.

Easy to do with layers,option state=start.

On even pages (back side) there's no logo, so I don't need the big top border.

Harder to implement because I hide the layers from the user and I don't know hoe I could support the doublesided option but it is possible to one special layers (lefthead/righthead) for just this feature.

Normally I leave out the first even page, e.g. my job application starts with an one-side letter, the following data (CV, references etc.) uses front and back page.

Different layouts for left and right pages are not supported because letters are normally printed singlesided or the header has only on the first page a different layout but this could be related to the restrictions in Word why I newver saw this. CV's are another topic and it makes sense to use a seperate environment for them, this is what I did for myself.

The application had the additional difficulty that there's the photo on the CV page, and I wanted the title in white *on* the photo...

I don't get what you mean, can you give me a example.

At least in the "online" PDF - I used modes to produce both printed version (without logo, because that's pre-printed on my sheets) and email version (with logo)

\startmode[print] \setupletterstyle[header=no] \stopmode

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(It would have been *much* easier to use InDesign for that stuff, like for most other designs that I do...)

This is also possible with ConTeXt because you could setup layers to place content dependent on left and right pages and the page layout could also change for left and right pages as long as you don't change the text width.

I used layers and setups, but I had difficulties switching them on and off. And what not - can't remember everything.

A few things are easy and I can do basic things without any manuals but advanced layouts are only possible with the source and trial and error. It is even harder to place layers if you want to fix them on lines in grid mode in the text with frames a content for the layer. Wolfgang

On Fri, Apr 18 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

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Then, for some reason that I forgot, I switched to scrlttr2.cls. And I patched it to get the same minimum-50%-feature. Unfortunately, this patch is no more working with recent versions of scrlttr2... (-> http://pmrb.free.fr/work/OS/LaTeX/lettre.lco )

I would welcome such a feature in your module!

I dont't have such a feature in the module I find it interesting.

Page breaks before the signature can still happen at the moment because I hadn't done anything against this problem but it is on my Todo list.

I don't know, if lettre.lco is readable for you, so here the idea in clear-text: - some vertical spaces (for example around the opening, between paragraphs, around the subject line, etc) can be decreased or increased by a global stretch-value (called "tension" in my file) - at the first texexec run, this value has to be reset to 0 - if the last page gets filled to <50%, then trigger a next texexec-run, with a decremented stretch-value for a filling <25% and an incremented value for a filling >25%, until the last page is filled to >50%. I think, there is already a command like \savetwopassdata or similar, so it should be easy with ConTeXt. If you want, I can try to integrate this feature after your public release. Cheers, Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

On Fri, Apr 18 2008, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

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I don't know, if lettre.lco is readable for you, so here the idea in clear-text:

I will try it later today on my system, can you send me a example letter before I had to take a look into scrguide.pdf.

I'm sorry, it would be too much work for me, to find the right version of scrlttr2.cls, that works with my lettre.lco. The file is 5 years old, and I know that it's no more working for quite some time now. Nevertheless, here an example, that should work with some old KOMA-version: \documentclass[lettre]{scrlttr2} \begin{document} \begin{letter}{Madame Bla\\Bla bla\\160 rue bla\\72031 Le Mans Cedex 9} \opening{Madame Bla,}% \input tufte \closing{Cordialement,} \end{letter} \end{document} Cheers, Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Willi Egger wrote:

Hi Wolfgang,

First of all thanks for this initiative! - Until now I composed a letter based on a "template" I build one day. Nothing special though.

I started also with mayn hard coded values and only a few parameters and replaced part by part.

- Still a module which would allow for writing letters and quotes consistently would make live easier. As I am living in the Netherlands, we use commonly block-style letters. Will your module provide the possibility to use a header on the first page and e.g. a smaller something in the margin on the second and following pages? Will your module provide page-numbering switched on beginning at the second page if the document is longer than 1 page? - This last point is in my environment always a struggle...

Very easy to do with ConTeXt because you could define different layouts for every page and what I do is to set the headerheight for the first page to 0pt and set it to another value like 1cm on the second page. You could now write the pagenumber as headertext because there is no header on the first page and the pagenumber will start on the second page.

The Dutch TeX users group has released on CTAN a ntgclass.zip (LaTeX). There are three articles which might help to "enlighten" you. Unfortunately two of the three articles are written in Dutch (briefdoc.pdf, brief.pdf). In case you intend to include ideas contained in this NEN-1026 style letter I am happy to help you translating the important parts of those articles.

Can you show me a few example letters with values for all fields, I saw a few in Hans letter documentation [1] and the works depends on one point, is the height and position for the reference and address block fixed or did it depend on the content. If the fields have a fixed height it is easy to write a style file but if the height depends on the content a need a little bit more time and I will implement it in a proper way, I have this problem also with american block style and a solution should be integrated in a consistent way with the rest of the module.

I am looking forward to your module

I still wait for comments about the user interface to set the values before I will release my module to the public although my last stable version is only available. Greetings Wolfgang [1] http://www.pragma-ade.com/show-man-29.htm

Hi Willi,

I will try to provide you with something. The difficulty is, that I do not have LaTeX running. So please some patience.

You could also draw something by hand and add values for the distance from the top or left margin and the height and width for the fields. Take a look at the following examples: http://www.din-5008-richtlinien.de/musterbriefboegen.php Link: "englische Version" on page 180 http://www.komascript.de/scrdoc/ You could use both examples as template and I dont need so many values. Wolfgang