Am 17.03.24 um 23:54 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

Hraban Ramm schrieb am 17.03.2024 um 22:48:

...

Hi, this question was rised in my ConTeXt beginners workshop* at Chemnitz Linux Days today:

Can I configure binding correction for saddle-stitched or thread-bound booklets, and if, does it only work with arranging (imposition) or can I enable it somehow for the layout (if the printshop does the imposition)?

1. \definepageshift + \setuppageshift

2. \setuplayout[horoffset=<DIMENSION>]

...

Also I recognized I'm not sure about the difference of the layout parameters backspace and cutspace.

backspace is the inner margin and cutspace the outer

Hi Wolfgang, thank you! Seems like I was too dense to understand the description for the \setuplayout parameters in the wiki (and there are more that I never used, oh my…), and since I never use ConTeXt’s imposition for serious print products (and never set up a scheme myself), I didn’t know about pageshift. Ok, if I leave imposition to the printshop and they don't do binding correction in their workflow, I'd need to set horoffset differently for every single page (i.e. first, second, second-to-last and last the same; 3th, 4th and from back the same etc.). Or is pageshift applied independently from arranging? And then, it makes no sense to add the same value all the time. I don’t know if BCOR works this way in LaTeX, but one value (paper thickness) should be enough in combination with an imposition schema. I.e. if I define a paper thickness and the number of pages that are in one booklet (as a single booklet or part of a "proper" book), then the page shift should work automatically. Well, for a single booklet, it could. In a book, booklets can have different numbers of pages, and then you'd need to define a list… Okay, too complicated. It’s the printshops's responsibility anyway, and nobody complained about my books so far. (I'm not perfectionist enough to care.) Hraban

Thank you Willi!

Generally I know for what binding correction is used, I just never tried 
to set it up. If I look carefully at one of our printed booklets, the 
printshop also didn’t. So I'd need pageshift without applying imposition 
(setting it up wouldn’t hurt).

I didn’t think about vertical pageshift, but of course that’s also 
needed for cross-folded sheets.

I'm not sure how (horizontal) pageshift is supposed to work with full 
page images without introducing white borders, but bleed at the inner 
edge should be enough.

Theoretically the shift value should be the same as the paper thickness 
(don’t you think?), but there’s some deformation involved, so a factor 
might make sense?

Unfortunately I threw out my old books on printing technology long ago, 
and my newer one doesn’t cover bookbinding (I’m not at home anyway).

Hraban

Am 19.03.24 um 17:01 schrieb Willi Egger:
> Hi Hraban,
>
> I think we should clarify this.
>
> Binding correction is a fixed amount of whitespace in the spine added to the inner white-space. This is to ensure, that the binding, which is consuming white-space, keeps the inner white-space optically as intended..
>
> The page shift mechanism works only with imposition enabled. This ensures, that the type-setting area does not creep towards the spine because multiple sheets of paper are folded in the spine.
>
> I doubt whether it is enough to have the measure of the thickness do determine this creeping effect, because we are making folds which are probably more circles than just adding thickness of paper.
>
>
> Willi
>
>> On 18 Mar 2024, at 17:35, Hraban Ramm  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 17.03.24 um 23:54 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
>>> Hraban Ramm schrieb am 17.03.2024 um 22:48:
>>>> Hi, this question was rised in my ConTeXt beginners workshop* at Chemnitz Linux Days today:
>>>>
>>>> Can I configure binding correction for saddle-stitched or thread-bound booklets, and if, does it only work with arranging (imposition) or can I enable it somehow for the layout (if the printshop does the imposition)?
>>> 1. \definepageshift + \setuppageshift
>>>
>>> 2. \setuplayout[horoffset=]
>>>
>>>> Also I recognized I'm not sure about the difference of the layout parameters backspace and cutspace.
>>> backspace is the inner margin and cutspace the outer
>>>
>> Hi Wolfgang, thank you! Seems like I was too dense to understand the description for the \setuplayout parameters in the wiki (and there are more that I never used, oh my…), and since I never use ConTeXt’s imposition for serious print products (and never set up a scheme myself), I didn’t know about pageshift.
>>
>> Ok, if I leave imposition to the printshop and they don't do binding correction in their workflow, I'd need to set horoffset differently for every single page (i.e. first, second, second-to-last and last the same; 3th, 4th and from back the same etc.). Or is pageshift applied independently from arranging?
>>
>> And then, it makes no sense to add the same value all the time. I don’t know if BCOR works this way in LaTeX, but one value (paper thickness) should be enough in combination with an imposition schema. I.e. if I define a paper thickness and the number of pages that are in one booklet (as a single booklet or part of a "proper" book), then the page shift should work automatically.
>>
>> Well, for a single booklet, it could. In a book, booklets can have different numbers of pages, and then you'd need to define a list… Okay, too complicated. It’s the printshops's responsibility anyway, and nobody complained about my books so far. (I'm not perfectionist enough to care.)
>>
>> Hraban
>>
>>
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>>
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Am 19.03.24 um 23:42 schrieb Willi Egger:

...

Generally I know for what binding correction is used, I just never tried to set it up. If I look carefully at one of our printed booklets, the printshop also didn’t. So I'd need pageshift without applying imposition (setting it up wouldn’t hurt). I organise this always with correction to the backspace. For every single page?

...

Theoretically the shift value should be the same as the paper thickness (don’t you think?), but there’s some deformation involved, so a factor might make sense? I think that this would be quite cumbersome, paper thickness of higly coated papers vs. novel-printing paper… I believe one would have to establish this thickness for each project unless the same paper is used...

No, I meant, I'd use the actual paper thickness as a parameter, so that paper shift could be calculated automatically with a geometrical factor according to the imposition schema. Don't you think that makes more sense than setting it for single pages? But while this is an interesting topic, it's one of these overly involved niche features in ConTeXt… I didn't care too much myself, and laypeople don't see it anyway.

...

Unfortunately I threw out my old books on printing technology long ago, and my newer one doesn’t cover bookbinding (I’m not at home anyway). I think, that many printshops do not possess neither old books including bookbinding nor do they care about the wishes of the binder … Pity, that you threw them out, but i understand, that circumstances might be such that you have to take decisions…

When we left Switzerland in 2012 for Freiburg (and then again Freiburg in 2013 for Kyrgyzstan), we had to drop ballast, and I still had too many books (if you can have too many books at all…). I had a lot on art techniques like calligraphy that I never used, and my printing technology stuff was outdated – well… The antiquarian gave me 30€ for a big pile of formerly expensive books, and he probably was generous. Since then I gained a publishing house and had to move three times, my moving helpers were not amused about that many book boxes. (The last move was into the 3rd story, or is this 4th?, of an old house with very high stories; if visitors arrive panting at my door, I tell them they can sign the summit register now…) Hraban