Re: [NTG-context] [Context] Xindy

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Gour

13 Sep 2008 13 Sep '08

5:28 a.m.

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"Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Mojca> Hello Gour, This is not a question for this mailing list, but Mojca> rather for Hans himself. OK. Mojca> ConTeXt doesn't use makeindex, so I don't really understand your Mojca> complaints about makeindex. Well, I mentioned 'makeindex' in the context of the tool which cannot properly handle Unicode, afaik. Mojca> What features exactly do you miss? I'm not sure if indexing-feature in ConTeXt allow me to use English, Croatian and Sanskrit diacritics (not Devanagari) all in one document and define that I want e.g. that \'{s}, \d{s} has to be sorted under 'Š' ? In short, xindy allows one to define his own sort-rules. Mojca> It makes no sense to discuss distributing something before it can Mojca> be used with ConTeXt.) Right, that's why also asked "Now I'm interested how is support for Xindy in ConTeXt" hoping that the context-distribution list has enough knowledgeable people able to answer it. Excuse me for the noise...redirecting to other list... Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: D19DB797 ----------------------------------------------------------------

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Hans Hagen

13 Sep 13 Sep

10:21 a.m.

New subject: [Context] Xindy

Gour wrote:

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"Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Mojca> Hello Gour, This is not a question for this mailing list, but Mojca> rather for Hans himself.

OK.

Mojca> ConTeXt doesn't use makeindex, so I don't really understand your Mojca> complaints about makeindex.

Well, I mentioned 'makeindex' in the context of the tool which cannot properly handle Unicode, afaik.

Mojca> What features exactly do you miss?

I'm not sure if indexing-feature in ConTeXt allow me to use English, Croatian and Sanskrit diacritics (not Devanagari) all in one document and define that I want e.g. that \'{s}, \d{s} has to be sorted under 'Š' ?

In short, xindy allows one to define his own sort-rules.

you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat easier because there we're in unicode space)

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Mojca> It makes no sense to discuss distributing something before it can Mojca> be used with ConTeXt.)

Right, that's why also asked "Now I'm interested how is support for Xindy in ConTeXt" hoping that the context-distribution list has enough knowledgeable people able to answer it.

Excuse me for the noise...redirecting to other list...

personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real long ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could not carry enough info around which i want in context) currently the index mechanism in mkiv still uses the same tex interface when typesetting the index itself, but i will provide a more extensive mechanism (first i redo the sectioning and list); at that point we will also have one-pass index handling of course, if someone wants to write a m-xindy, i can provide additional interfaces/hooks if needed Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Gour

3:08 p.m.

New subject: [Context] Xindy

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"Hans" == Hans Hagen writes:

Hans> you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat Hans> easier because there we're in unicode space) Well, Xindy works with utf-8, but it 's nice to hear about mkiv's features. Hans> personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real Hans> long ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could Hans> not carry enough info around which i want in context) Hmm, iirc, (it was long ago when I read Xindy's docs), Xindy is quite markup agnostic. The very web site says: "xindy is an index processor that can be used to generate book-like indexes for arbitrary document-preparation systems. This includes systems such as TeX and LaTeX, the roff-family, SGML/XML-based systems (e.g., HTML) that process some kind of text and generate indexing information. The kernel system is not fixed to any specific system, but can be configured to work together with such systems." You can also read http://xindy.sourceforge.net/features.html page... Can ConTeXt process e.g. indexes like Bible's example mentioned under "Manage Non-Standard Locations" section in the above page? Hans> of course, if someone wants to write a m-xindy, i can provide Hans> additional interfaces/hooks if needed I'll be definitely interested to have it. However, probably not enough time before the end of the year. m-xindy is tsupposed to be written in TeX macro or Lua? Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D ----------------------------------------------------------------

Gour

21 Jul 21 Jul

8:35 a.m.

New subject: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 12:21:21 +0200 Hans Hagen wrote: Hello Hans, It was long ago since I did work on two parts of my mother's autobiography and it was done in LyX/LaTeX/xindy... Now, after her departure, there is an interest to write down 3rd (final) part and I'm considering to do it as single book using ConTeXt.

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you can define your own sort order (in mkiv this is somewhat easier because there we're in unicode space)

The two parts along with the to-be-written 3rd part would make it over 1k pages (currently part I & II are over 900p), there is mix of Croatian and English in each book (although we published editions in both languages), there are lot of Sanskrit words written using diacritics, bibliography, glossary as well as color pictures. I'm sure there is no problem in doing English/Croatian, but wonder about Sanskrit diacritics, eg. when I typeset small snippet from the LyX source I notice things like: fonts > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font 'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend > xmp > using file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml' so I wonder if you have some suggestions in regard to fonts which cover those diacritics well? When using LaTeX, accents were just handled by putting e.g. dot over 'm'. Any hint how to easily enter such things in one's editor? Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?

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personally i have no plans for using xindy (i looked into it real long ago but at that time it was rather latex oriented and could not carry enough info around which i want in context)

As far as I understand Xindy is not developed any longer, so I hope ConTeXt can do everything? What about generating Glossary?

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currently the index mechanism in mkiv still uses the same tex interface when typesetting the index itself, but i will provide a more extensive mechanism (first i redo the sectioning and list); at that point we will also have one-pass index handling

What is the status of the above now? Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt? Sincerely, Gour -- Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose, and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus, the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.

Hans Hagen

10:35 a.m.

New subject: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

Hi,

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fonts > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font 'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend > xmp > using file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'

You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they are proper unicodes. \definefontfeature[default][compose=yes] \starttext char ṁ (U+01E41) \stoptext

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Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?

in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to influence the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting order, but the sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case, shape, can be changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be sorted as m because it has the 'm' shape

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What about generating Glossary?

should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can tell you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)

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Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt?

i never used lyx but i assume that when there is structure it can partly be scripted Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Denis Maier

10:39 a.m.

New subject: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt (was Re: [Context] Xindy)

Converting LaTeX to ConTeXt should be possible with pandoc, though not everything will work without manual adjustments. Denis Hans Hagen schrieb am So., 21. Juli 2019, 12:35:

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Hi,

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fonts > checking > char ṁ (U+01E41) in font 'LMRoman12-Regular' with id 1: missing backend > xmp > using file '/usr/share/texmf/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-pdx.xml'

You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they are proper unicodes.

\definefontfeature[default][compose=yes]

\starttext char ṁ (U+01E41) \stoptext

...
Now, I wonder how can one "define one's own sort order" since I'd like that words containing e.g. 'ṁ' are to be sorted as 'm'?

in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to influence the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting order, but the sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case, shape, can be changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be sorted as m because it has the 'm' shape

...
What about generating Glossary?

should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can tell you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)

...
Any further hint in translating LyX/LaTeX sources into ConTeXt?

i never used lyx but i assume that when there is structure it can partly be scripted

Hans

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

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Saša Janiška

22 Jul 22 Jul

9:06 a.m.

New subject: translating LyX/LaTex book into ConTeXt

On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 12:35:09 +0200 Hans Hagen wrote:

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You can extend the default feature to also add missing composed characters to the font. In mkiv we have way more control and these missign characters are then made virtual ones but in the text they are proper unicodes.

\definefontfeature[default][compose=yes]

\starttext char ṁ (U+01E41) \stoptext

That's great. Thank you!

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in sort-lan you can find examples of how sorting works in mkiv .. you can find examples in the test suite end elsewhere about how to influence the sorting order (basically it uses a language sorting order, but the sequence of the about 6 steps involving code, case, shape, can be changed ... in your case the m is quite likely to be sorted as m because it has the 'm' shape

Good.

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should be problem ... i'm pretty sure that on the list someone can tell you how he/she did it (users of critical editions)

OK. Sincerely, Gour -- He who is regulated in his habits of eating, sleeping, recreation and work can mitigate all material pains by practicing the yoga system.

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Denis Maier
Gour
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Hans Hagen
Hans Hagen
Saša Janiška