Am 2009-04-28 um 20:53 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

...

\setupsectionworld is unknown in latest beta (at least since some betas before).

removed from mkiv a *long* time ago, there is now \startchapter etc.

Long time in ConTeXt means less than a year... In 2008-08 Hans still wrote he wouldn't know if he would extend the sectionworld in MkIV. The discussion about \startsection ... \stopsection was in 2007! I don't understand how to use \startchapter[]{} ... \stopchapter for my needs. Could you give me a hint what to look for? I couldn't find \startchapter in the garden, and \startsection leads to \startsectionblockenvironment (strc-sbe.tex, core-sec.tex) \startsectionworld (core-swd.tex, doesn't mention it's not for MkIV) \startsection (m-cweb.tex) Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Am 29.04.2009 um 10:24 schrieb Hans Hagen:

...

I don't understand how to use \startchapter[]{} ... \stopchapter for my needs.

\startchapter[title=,reference=,bookmark=,...][optional user data]

is optional data in keyval form or normal text and who to use own values for author, date etc. in titles (which was possible in sectionworld) Wolfgang

Am 29.04.2009 um 14:35 schrieb R. Bastian:

The \startchapter does not exist in my MinimalContex installation, but I hope one can include it.

I dream from a world where people can whether they use MkII or MkIV and what's the date of their ConTeXt version.

Anyway: which is the best method to get the list of all params one can give to \startSOMETHING (in this case \startchapter and the meanings of this params (some are obvious : title= ..., but not all).

http://pragma-ade.nl/show-man-10.htm Wolfgang

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 09:07:53 -0600 Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد scribit:

Hi Wolfgang,

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:54:50 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

...

Anyway: which is the best method to get the list of all params one can give to \startSOMETHING (in this case \startchapter and the meanings of this params (some are obvious : title= ..., but not all).

http://pragma-ade.nl/show-man-10.htm

I did not see the ne sectioning there... Anyway

\startchapter[title=,reference=,bookmark=,...][optional user data]

Could you [or someone] give a couple of example of how to use

[optional user data]

Also, where in the base files does this stuff get defined? I could not find it.

Best wishes Idris

-- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523

May be that ConTeXt is not a 'context free language' ;-) than it will be difficult to express something in a BNF grammar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus-Naur_form. But if (ConTeXt == formal_language), it should be possible to develop TEXT, NUMBER, DIMENSION, REFERENCE, etc and also to add examples for "[optional user data]". rb

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

...

May be that ConTeXt is not a 'context free language' ;-) than it will be difficult to express something in a BNF grammar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus-Naur_form.

hmm. Context is a macro package in TeX language which is Turing Complete.

...

But if (ConTeXt == formal_language), it should be possible to develop TEXT, NUMBER, DIMENSION, REFERENCE, etc and also to add examples for "[optional user data]".

hmm I'm not sure that ConTeXt == TeX (but it seems YES) , I'm nor sure that TeX is a context free language too, in the sense that I never see a BNF grammar of TeX . (chap.24-26 of the Texbook are embryos of a grammar, but they are not usable

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:55:05 +0200 luigi scarso scribit: like the grammar of Pascal or Python)

I suspect that TeX is not a cfl .

Anyway, lpeg can make the thing easier

-- luigi

I think that something user-friendly could be do in a cooperative wiki (in the between, i found http://texshow.contextgarden.net/) beginning with CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= PREAMBLE "\starttext" TEXT "\stoptext" | CONTEXT_SOURCE TEXT ::= STARTSTOPS | SETUPS | DEFINES | OTHERS [ TEXT and so on.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:00:07 +0200 luigi scarso scribit:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, R. Bastian wrote:

...

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:55:05 +0200 luigi scarso scribit:

...

...

May be that ConTeXt is not a 'context free language' ;-) than it will be difficult to express something in a BNF grammar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backus-Naur_form.

hmm. Context is a macro package in TeX language which is Turing Complete.

...

But if (ConTeXt == formal_language), it should be possible to develop TEXT, NUMBER, DIMENSION, REFERENCE, etc and also to add examples for "[optional user data]".

hmm I'm not sure that ConTeXt == TeX (but it seems YES) , I'm nor sure that TeX is a context free language too, in the sense that I never see a BNF grammar of TeX . (chap.24-26 of the Texbook are embryos of a grammar, but they are not usable like the grammar of Pascal or Python) I suspect that TeX is not a cfl .

Anyway, lpeg can make the thing easier

-- luigi

...

I think that something user-friendly could be do in a cooperative wiki (in the between, i found http://texshow.contextgarden.net/) beginning with

CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= PREAMBLE "\starttext" TEXT "\stoptext" | CONTEXT_SOURCE TEXT ::= STARTSTOPS | SETUPS | DEFINES | OTHERS [ TEXT

and so on.

Consider that one can always make some dirty tricks in PREAMBLE to render useless "\starttext" or "\stoptext"

To be general, i think MY_CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= MACRO* END

For example , let's try $>context test where test.tex ::="\end" or test.tex ::="FOO\end"

Are there any errors ? No Is test.tex in {CONTEXT_SOURCE } ? No Is test.tex in {MY_CONTEXT_SOURCE} Yes so MY_CONTEXT_SOURCE includes CONTEXT_SOURCE (of course test.tex ::="\end""\starttext""\stoptext" is also in {CONTEXT_SOURCE } )

I dont understand the sense of "\end\starttext" (I am simply seeking a layout system which works better than Latex).

I think that a bnf or lpeg grammar is really useful for a sort of standard-ConTeXt or minimal-ConTeXt or light-ConTeXt ie a ConTeXt to use as "reference"

Exactly what I need : standard, minimal and light

but can be a bit hard to define

-- luigi

R. Bastian:

CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= PREAMBLE "\starttext" TEXT "\stoptext" | CONTEXT_SOURCE

...

...

TEXT ::= STARTSTOPS | SETUPS | DEFINES | OTHERS [ TEXT

luigi:

To be general, i think

...

MY_CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= MACRO* END

R. Bastian:

I dont understand the sense of "\end\starttext"

sense==semantic "\end""\starttext" is a valid string for a hypothetical bnf grammar of ContTeXt which is not valid for your bnf ; "\end""\starttext""\stoptext" is in your bnf grammar and has the same semantic of "\end""\starttext" . The point is : a bnf for Context can be hard to define luigi: think that a bnf or lpeg grammar is really useful for a sort of

...

standard-ConTeXt or minimal-ConTeXt or light-ConTeXt ie a ConTeXt to use as "reference"

R. Bastian:

Exactly what I need : standard, minimal and light

Exactly what can be hard to define and capture in a bnf . wolfgang

How could a BNF grammar help to learn ConTeXt,

a bnf can help to build a syntax checker, a highlighter etc. Actually the only way to say that you have a valid ConTeXt string is running context on that string . The semantic is another story. -- luigi

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:16 AM, R. Bastian wrote:

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:48:40 +0200 luigi scarso scribit:

...

R. Bastian:

...

CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= PREAMBLE "\starttext" TEXT "\stoptext" | CONTEXT_SOURCE

...

...

TEXT ::= STARTSTOPS | SETUPS | DEFINES | OTHERS [ TEXT

luigi:

...

To be general, i think

...

MY_CONTEXT_SOURCE ::= MACRO* END

R. Bastian:

...

I dont understand the sense of "\end\starttext"

sense==semantic

"\end""\starttext" is a valid string for a hypothetical bnf grammar of ContTeXt which is not valid for your bnf ; "\end""\starttext""\stoptext" is in your bnf grammar and has the same semantic of "\end""\starttext" .

The point is : a bnf for Context can be hard to define

luigi:

think that a bnf or lpeg grammar is really useful for a sort of

...

...

standard-ConTeXt or minimal-ConTeXt or light-ConTeXt ie a ConTeXt to use as "reference"

R. Bastian:

...

Exactly what I need : standard, minimal and light

Exactly what can be hard to define and capture in a bnf .

wolfgang

...

How could a BNF grammar help to learn ConTeXt,

a bnf can help to build a syntax checker, a highlighter etc. Actually the only way to say that you have a valid ConTeXt string is running context on that string .

The semantic is another story.

OK - but isn't it not worth to try it ?

sure, and I encourage you to go on and possibly write something x next eurotex. My suggestions to start : 1) define a **simple but significative** domain ,ie "this grammar is for subset of ConTeXt language dedicated to variable-data pdf forms" 2) make a bnf grammar spec 3) build a parser lex/yacc for 2) 4) make a lpeg grammar 5) user lpeg inside context for 3) PS it was just a coincidence , but for other reasons I have found this link http://martinfowler.com/dslwip/ -- luigi

...

My suggestions to start : 1) define a **simple but significative** domain ,ie "this grammar is for subset of ConTeXt language dedicated to variable-data pdf forms"

yes

...

2) make a bnf grammar spec

yes

...

3) build a parser lex/yacc for 2)

later

why ? There is no difference between 2 and 3 I think a wiki would be a better forum than this mailing-list ?

hmm "this" mailing-list is ok for this kind of discussions "a wiki" is wiki.contextgarden.net and you should put your results in your personal page -- luigi

Hello all: using defaults setings, footnote numbers size in heads are too big. I usually use \chapter{Capitulo 1\switchtobodyfont[9]\footnote{texto del footnote}\switchtobodyfont[11]} and works fine. But if I have a chapter head with a footnote in the middle: \chapter{Capitulo 1\switchtobodyfont[9]\footnote{texto del footnote}\switchtobodyfont[11] continua el titulo} the result is not correct. How can I fix this? tahnkyou in adavance. -------------------- Horacio Suarez _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx

Am 29.04.2009 um 17:07 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد:

Hi Wolfgang,

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 06:54:50 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster

...

wrote:

...

...

Anyway: which is the best method to get the list of all params one can give to \startSOMETHING (in this case \startchapter and the meanings of this params (some are obvious : title= ..., but not all).

http://pragma-ade.nl/show-man-10.htm

I did not see the ne sectioning there... Anyway

You're welcome to add missing command to cont-en.xml

\startchapter[title=,reference=,bookmark=,...][optional user data]

Could you [or someone] give a couple of example of how to use

[optional user data]

Also, where in the base files does this stuff get defined? I could not find it.

strc-sec.tex start/stop commands are created with \definehead automatically Wolfgang

Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:14:38 -0600, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

...

\startchapter[title=,reference=,bookmark=,...][optional user data]

Could you [or someone] give a couple of example of how to use

[optional user data]

Also, where in the base files does this stuff get defined? I could not find it.

strc-sec.tex

start/stop commands are created with \definehead automatically

ok, thnx! OTOH, I did not see any illustrative examples of the use of [optional user data]

:-)

of course not .. its; new -) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Am 29.04.2009 um 20:23 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid ادريس سماوي حامد:

...

ok, thnx! OTOH, I did not see any illustrative examples of the use of [optional user data]

\setuphead[title][align=middle,command=\TitleCommand]

\setuphead[chapter][align=middle,command=\TitleCommand]

\define[2]\TitleCommand {\startframedtext[frame=off,width=\hsize,align=middle] #2\hairline \structureuservalue{author}\hfill\structureuservalue{date} \stopframedtext}

\starttext

\startchapter[title={How to make Idris happy?},reference={sec:happy}] [author={Wolfgang Schuster},date=\currentdate]

It's not as hard you think, just show him a few nice things and he is happy.

See \in{section}[sec:happy] at \at{page}[sec:happy].

\stopchapter

\stoptext

Are you now happy?

Wolfgang

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Am 29.04.2009 um 10:24 schrieb Hans Hagen:

...

...

I don't understand how to use \startchapter[]{} ... \stopchapter for my needs.

\startchapter[title=,reference=,bookmark=,...][optional user data]

is optional data in keyval form or normal text and who to use own values for author, date etc. in titles (which was possible in sectionworld)

key = value with \structureuservalue{key}, unless it's broken -) the info travels with the list data as well so eventually it will be accessible everywhere ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Am 2009-04-29 um 15:53 schrieb Mohamed Bana:

Would it be possible to go through a deprecation phase? E.g., allow

\section hello world

to compile, but prompt the user to acknowledge that it's going to be replaced with \section{hello world} in future versions.

Please don't mix your concern about structurals without braces into this thread, would you please? Or is it the same topic? I agree that it would be nice to know if commands disappear. I try to understand here, how to redo my chapter setup that once worked using sectionworld commands. At the moment I get no output for the chapter title at all. My input reads: \Titel{Author}{Title}{Subtitle} The output as chapter title should become like: \vbox{ {\rm\tf Author\crlf} {\ss\bfb Title\crlf} {\ss\bf Subtitle} } In the table of contents I need: Author: Title \hfill pagenumber So, using \startchapter, I define \Titel like this: \def\Titel#1#2#3{\startchapter[title={#2},bookmark={#2}] [author={#1},subtitle={#3}]} I guess, even \startchapter should obey to \setuphead[chapter]: \setuphead[chapter][ header=high, incrementnumber=no, command=\ChapterCommand, page=yes, number=no, align={flushleft,nothyphenated,verytolerant}, style=,] Therefore I define (i.e. Wolfgang defined) \ChapterCommand like: \def\ChapterCommand#1#2{\vbox{\ChapterAuthor\ChapterTitle \ChapterSubTitle}} While \ChapterAuthor cum suis is defined in a setup. Now, what's the replacement for: \setupsectionworld[chapter][setups={chapter:list},author=] I tried to adapt Wolfgang's code to Hans' sparse hints: \unprotect \resetvalue{\??sw\v!chapter} \startsetups chapter:list \doiftextelse{\structureuservalue{author}} {\expanded{\writetolist[\v!chapter] {\structureuservalue{author}:\space \structurevalue{title}}{}}} {\expanded{\writetolist[\v!chapter] {\structurevalue{title}}{}}} \def\ChapterAuthor{% \doiftextelse% {\structureuservalue{author}}% {\rm\tf\structureuservalue{author}\crlf\vskip0.25em} {}% } \def\ChapterTitle{{\ss\bfb\structurevalue{title}}} \def\ChapterSubTitle{% \doiftextelse% {\structureuservalue{subtitle}}% {\crlf\vskip0.2em\ss\bf\structureuservalue{subtitle}}% {}% } \stopsetups \def\ChapterCommand#1#2{\vbox{\ChapterAuthor\ChapterTitle \ChapterSubTitle}} % why is/was this needed? \let\ChapterAuthor\relax \let\ChapterTitle\relax \let\ChapterSubTitle\relax \protect (The original code is still in http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Proceedings_style) Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Am 2009-04-29 um 23:07 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

You never needed the sectionworld command for your own header command, this solution is cleaner and works with mkii and mkiv.

Thank you! That's nearly exactly what I wanted to achieve! So I asked the wrong question, stupid newbie error... But I wonder why you suggested the complicated solution one year before... I'll update http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Proceedings_style as soon as I get my other problems sorted out. Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Am 2009-04-30 um 19:06 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:

...

...

You never needed the sectionworld command for your own header command, this solution is cleaner and works with mkii and mkiv.

Thank you! That's nearly exactly what I wanted to achieve! So I asked the wrong question, stupid newbie error... But I wonder why you suggested the complicated solution one year before...

I presented you a solution with sectionworld headers, the \Title command was AFAIR your invention (which you never mentioned before).

That one indeed (that was easy...), but the whole sectionworld stuff was yours, as documented in http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Proceedings_style (see %start/stop WS; there \Titel is called \MyChapter) I still don't understand what the (additional?) problem was that you solved with that solution. Apparently we needed to tinker with the chapter counter. What part of your recent solutions wasn't possible one year before? \define[#] ? (At least I didn't know that one.) Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)