Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

Hello,

is there any way to make hyphenation work when using \underbar?

Mojca, sorry I do not know the answer to that. But I was testing a few things with \underbar and now have questions of my own.

Something seem to be broken with \underbar and ||. See the output of

\underbar{stand||alone}

Isn't | a special char like & (plain tex)? What happens, if you use \textbar instead?

Also, what is difference between alternatives in underbar? All the three alternatives look the same to me (from the sources)

{\setupunderbar [alternativevariant=a]\underbar{alternative a}}, {\setupunderbar [alternativevariant=b]\underbar{alternative b}}, {\setupunderbar [alternativevariant=c]\underbar{alternative c}}

Try "alternative" instead of "alternativevariant". Peter

Aditya _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On 7/26/06, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

Hello,

is there any way to make hyphenation work when using \underbar?

Perhaps you can try some of the techniques in Chapter 10 of Metafun manual. There is no mention of hypenation, but looking at Fig 10.3 it seems that hypenation is taken care of. Working with a rectangular region should be easier, but then one needs to take care of pagebreaks.....

Actually, if I'm thinking about extending \underbar to handle such situations, then I'm ready to put some effort into fixing it (since it might be useful in the future as well). But considering my document: using metapost is too much overhead to underline just a couple of sentences. (To be honest: now I switched to bold instead since I'm running out of time anyway.)

rather tricky i.e. kind of impossible to do \underbars (plural) at least split at word boundaries anyhow, underbar is from the typewriter time and just a poor mans emphasis thing Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Jano Kula wrote:

Hans Hagen wrote:

...

anyhow, underbar is from the typewriter time and just a poor mans emphasis thing

Not always. A year ago a graphic designer used it a quiet creative way in the book of interviews. All the questions or persons were underlined, often hyphenated. It was an experiment and it worked. By the way, some of the caption and figure alingment Mojca asked for was used there also. I've put few sample pages here (done in LaTeX):

http://web.iol.cz/kula/sample.pdf (1,5MB).

And in Wolfgang Weingart: My Way to Typography (2000) underlined text are used everywhere. To much to my taste.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/390704486X?v=glance

So not for emphasis but as a graphic element it is -- and will be -- used.

if one works on a grid, one can use the textbackground mechanism to provide underlined text honoring hyphenation (there is probably an example of that somewhere) maybe there's also some pdf primitive, in which case one can use the context feature mechanism Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Taco Hoekwater wrote:

Hi,

Be warned, this entire reply does not answer any questions ;-)

OK

Jano Kula wrote:

...

Not always. A year ago a graphic designer used it a quiet creative way in the book of interviews. All the questions or persons were underlined, often hyphenated. It was an experiment and it worked. By the way, some of the caption and figure alingment Mojca asked for was used there also. I've put few sample pages here (done in LaTeX):

http://web.iol.cz/kula/sample.pdf (1,5MB).

Perhaps I am way too old-fashioned, but that looks rather ugly to me.

Sure you are ;) Modern designs are modern designs. But don't worry you are not the only one. We have spent many hours, did many experiments and I was afraid of using it also. The result was a pragmatic solution when all the possibilities mentioned below were not usable in the book with many different situations we needed to handle. I was very suprised when the designer (experienced, respected and well aware of typography history and present) came up with this solution. I can't say I like it, but in print it wasn't that ugly as I was expecting. What I liked more than this solution was the courage to breake the rules we are all aware of (btw, like Godard used to do in his films; the book is a collection of interviews with him).

...

So not for emphasis but as a graphic element it is -- and will be -- used.

IMO,

graphic element == emphasis

Imagine the form with prescribed empty lines (lines, dots, dashes) and the pieces of predifined text on them in the schoolbook.

Backgrounds, colorization, larger or different typeface, indentation, additional vertical space, they are all tools to draw extra attention to particular bits of the text.

Hence, whether we like it or not, we must be able to use underlining. Greetings, Jano

Hans Hagen wrote:

Jano Kula wrote:

...

Imagine the form with prescribed empty lines (lines, dots, dashes) and the pieces of predifined text on them in the schoolbook.

that's when we use the textbackgrounds (which then draw lines insteadof fills)

Thanks, Hans, for both tips, I'll try them. Jano