[***SPAM***] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

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[SPAM] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)

hwitloc＠gmail.com

7 Sep 2013 7 Sep '13

3:31 a.m.

I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism. Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality? Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage? Cheers

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Hans Hagen

7 Sep 7 Sep

1:04 p.m.

On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...

I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing speed - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

hwitloc＠gmail.com

8 Sep 8 Sep

2:33 a.m.

Thanks for the explanation. Providing the mapping feature with \mapTABLEtoxtabl and \restoreTABLEfromxtable was a very good choice. Cheers Hans Hagen wrote:

...

On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...
I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing speed - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Hans

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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Wolfgang Schuster

2:17 p.m.

Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc@gmail.com:

...

Thanks for the explanation. Providing the mapping feature with \mapTABLEtoxtabl and \restoreTABLEfromxtable was a very good choice.

Cheers

Hans Hagen wrote:

...
On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...
I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing speed - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns. Wolfgang

hwitloc＠gmail.com

4:41 p.m.

Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

Wolfgang

Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames. Is this functionality covered in extreme tables? When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns? If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future. Is this assumption correct? Regards

...

Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc:

...
Thanks for the explanation. Providing the mapping feature with \mapTABLEtoxtabl and \restoreTABLEfromxtable was a very good choice.

Cheers

Hans Hagen wrote:

...
On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc

...
I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing speed - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

Wolfgang

Hans Hagen

5:04 p.m.

On 9/8/2013 4:41 PM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...

Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames. Is this functionality covered in extreme tables?

you can still do that but with either explicit settings or with symbolic references to settings

...

When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns?

you can have named rows/columns

...

If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future. Is this assumption correct?

it is *not* a replacement for TABLE in the sense that not all functionality is the same; there might however be more functionality in xtreme tables Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.

9 Sep 9 Sep

9:13 a.m.

Hello, just one user's point of view: There are many table-creating commands. Some of them are deprecated and only supported for backward compatibility. It seemed to me till now that natural tables (provided by \...TABLE... commands) were best choice as they are versatile, they have friendly setup, they may be split over more pages (with repeating header/footer) and (almost each feature) may be specified individually for row, column or even cell. It seemed to that nothing more user might wish. (And - as "more complicated", i.e. more typing to enter them, Lua helps in this situation.) Now, we have xtables which have the same functionality as TABLEs, or a bit more. But - (?) xtables have a bit "poorer" setup options (so far? - By Wolfgang's answer).

...

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

...

Wolfgang

The "more" is - named cells? Faster rendering? IMHO - wouldn't be better to extend TABLEs to be as good as xtables (i.e. - add named cells)? Or to unify xtables and TABLEs - make xtables and TABLEs have the same functionality and options, and make their names/commands synonyms? - When I started using Ctx, there were so many tabling commands and I always had to compare their possibilities to select one; and to check whether the chosen "tabler" is not deprecated. So I ended up with TABLEs (and Lua). Now, it seems to me that TABLEs will become deprecated, being replaced with xtables... Best regards, Lukas On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 17:04:21 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

On 9/8/2013 4:41 PM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...
Yes, I was need to set the height and width of cells as well as turn on and off top/bottom, left/right cell frames. Is this functionality covered in extreme tables?

you can still do that but with either explicit settings or with symbolic references to settings

...
When you write "certain rows and colums" do you mean certain settings for rows and columns?

you can have named rows/columns

...
If some functions are missing, I assume that they will be added in the future. Is this assumption correct?

it is *not* a replacement for TABLE in the sense that not all functionality is the same; there might however be more functionality in xtreme tables

Hans

-- Ing. Lukáš Procházka [mailto:LPr@pontex.cz] Pontex s. r. o. [mailto:pontex@pontex.cz] [http://www.pontex.cz] Bezová 1658 147 14 Praha 4 Tel: +420 244 062 238 Fax: +420 244 461 038

Hans Hagen

12:29 p.m.

On 9/9/2013 9:13 AM, Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o. wrote:

...

Hello,

just one user's point of view:

There are many table-creating commands.

Some of them are deprecated and only supported for backward compatibility.

they are not deprecated at all - table: a rather traditional, close to tex alignment mechanism - tabulate: quite good for text, breaks across pages nicely, i use that one myself most of the time (i might redo it one time) - TABLE: to some extend html compatible, originally meant for uise in combination with xml, but also useable in tex (somewhat slow) - xtable: a follow up on TABLE (with some strong points but also some limitations)

...

It seemed to me till now that natural tables (provided by \...TABLE... commands) were best choice as they are versatile, they have friendly setup, they may be split over more pages (with repeating header/footer) and (almost each feature) may be specified individually for row, column or even cell.

It seemed to that nothing more user might wish.

i must admit that i only use it in combination with xml -)

...

(And - as "more complicated", i.e. more typing to enter them, Lua helps in this situation.)

Now, we have xtables which have the same functionality as TABLEs, or a bit more. But - (?) xtables have a bit "poorer" setup options (so far? - By Wolfgang's answer).

hm, in fact the configuration options are better; it doesn't have the x,y setup but named rows, cells and row/cellgroups are quite ok

...

...
Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

not on the agenda (one can use symbolic names of setups which is more powerful that hard coded numbers)

...

...
Wolfgang

The "more" is - named cells? Faster rendering?

IMHO - wouldn't be better to extend TABLEs to be as good as xtables (i.e. - add named cells)?

no, as it would be even slower .. i also tend not to touch TABLE to much as it is used in workflows that demand stability

...

Or to unify xtables and TABLEs - make xtables and TABLEs have the same functionality and options, and make their names/commands synonyms?

- When I started using Ctx, there were so many tabling commands and I always had to compare their possibilities to select one; and to check whether the chosen "tabler" is not deprecated.

So I ended up with TABLEs (and Lua).

Now, it seems to me that TABLEs will become deprecated, being replaced with xtables...

it will never be deprecated but i might have missed an announcement -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Hans Hagen

8 Sep 8 Sep

5:02 p.m.

On 9/8/2013 2:17 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 08.09.2013 um 02:33 schrieb hwitloc@gmail.com:

...
Thanks for the explanation. Providing the mapping feature with \mapTABLEtoxtabl and \restoreTABLEfromxtable was a very good choice.

Cheers

Hans Hagen wrote:

...
On 9/7/2013 3:31 AM, hwitloc@gmail.com wrote:

...
I just noticed the YATM, "yet another table method", built in ConTEXt, called "extreme tables", which is said to be a variant of the natural table mechanism.

Is extreme-tables a superset of natural-tables functionality?

Is the future in extreme-tables and will natural-tables eventually take a back seat and then fade away, being surpassed in development, features and usage?

- the natural tables will stay (but frozen - you can overload them: \mapTABLEtoxtabl \restoreTABLEfromxtable - xtreme tables have more protential for extensions without sacrificing speed - xtreme tables are faster but for normal use both suit

Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down to storing the setup and reparsing) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Wolfgang Schuster

5:50 p.m.

Am 08.09.2013 um 17:02 schrieb Hans Hagen :

...

...
Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down to storing the setup and reprising)

Can you at least add a command to access the current row/column (e.g. \currentxtablerow and \curentxtablecolumn), this way one can use metapost to create special background (e.g. different colors for odd/even rows) without manual tagging each row. Wolfgang

Hans Hagen

9 Sep 9 Sep

1:18 a.m.

On 9/8/2013 5:50 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 08.09.2013 um 17:02 schrieb Hans Hagen :

...
...
Do you plan to add something equivalent to \setupTABLE[<row>][<column>][<settings>] because xtables lack the function to set values for certain rows/columns.

in TABLE that is both flexible and a slow-downer but in xtreme table we have named cells, rows, cellgroups, rowgroups (also a bit better abstraction and fits nicely in the setup handler; in TABLE is boils down to storing the setup and reprising)

Can you at least add a command to access the current row/column (e.g. \currentxtablerow and \curentxtablecolumn), this way one can use metapost to create special background (e.g. different colors for odd/even rows) without manual tagging each row.

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Hans Hagen
hwitloc＠gmail.com
Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.
Wolfgang Schuster

hwitloc＠gmail.com

Hans Hagen

hwitloc＠gmail.com

Wolfgang Schuster

hwitloc＠gmail.com

Hans Hagen

Procházka Lukáš Ing. - Pontex s. r. o.

Hans Hagen

Hans Hagen

Wolfgang Schuster

Hans Hagen

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[SPAM] YATM (Yet Another Table Method)