\overrightarrow changed

Mikael P. Sundqvist

27 Jan 2013 27 Jan '13

4:24 p.m.

Dear list, \starttext text $\overrightarrow{OP}$ text \stoptext gives smaller letters since some time ago under the arrow. See the attached pdf files for the output of different versions of context (test.pdf is compiled with the latest beta). I think the look in test20121210.pdf is the right one. /Mikael

Attachments:

test.pdf (application/pdf — 6.5 KB)
test20121210.pdf (application/pdf — 6.5 KB)

Show replies by date

Hans Hagen

27 Jan 27 Jan

8:40 p.m.

On 1/27/2013 5:24 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:

...

Dear list,

\starttext text $\overrightarrow{OP}$ text \stoptext

gives smaller letters since some time ago under the arrow. See the attached pdf files for the output of different versions of context (test.pdf is compiled with the latest beta).

I think the look in test20121210.pdf is the right one.

fixed. some more info about the updated mkiv arrow related mechanisms can be found in http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/about.pdf (btw, one needs the latest greatest lm/gyre math fonts) Hans -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Otared Kavian

10:02 p.m.

On 27 janv. 2013, at 21:40, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

[…] fixed. some more info about the updated mkiv arrow related mechanisms can be found in

http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/about.pdf

(btw, one needs the latest greatest lm/gyre math fonts)

Hans

This is an amazing progress! With the mechanisms you decsribe (mathextensible, leaders, fillers,…) it is much easier to use arrows and place them wherever it is necessay. Thanks! Best regards: OK

Keith J. Schultz

28 Jan 28 Jan

9:37 a.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

Hi Everybody, I am becoming more and more interested in ConTeXt. I am gradually grasping the potential of ConTeXt and its advantages over Lua(La)TeX. My problem is finding decent documentation for ConTeXt. Yes, there is ConTeXt Garden. But, let us be honest it is a big mess. It mixes the old, the bad and the good. I will admit the information there has improved greatly, and YET finding the good and recent is not that easy. Furthermore, since I am interested in what one can and can not do in ConTeXt, I do not know ahead of time exactly what I am looking for. Basically, I literally just stumble over what is good and interesting. That would not be that bad if following the different links would not get one lost and one can not your way back. What would be needed are some decent top level entry points! On Pragma there, also, are some very good documents, but if you do not know where to look or what to look for, good searching!! I know all you guys and gals working on ConTeXt are working hard, but I hate to bother you with questions I want to do this or that, how do I .... or where can I find a guide on manual for this and that. You have more important things to do. Wolfgang help me with finding a ConTeXt-Lua Programming guide by Hans. sure its new, BUT could we put such guides into the Standalone distribution! Even if they are incomplete! What I could use is, now, is a ConTeXt programming guide! Sorry, if I seem to harsh. I do understand how much work documentation is. regards Keith. Am 27.01.2013 um 21:40 schrieb Hans Hagen :

...

On 1/27/2013 5:24 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:

...
Dear list,

\starttext text $\overrightarrow{OP}$ text \stoptext

gives smaller letters since some time ago under the arrow. See the attached pdf files for the output of different versions of context (test.pdf is compiled with the latest beta).

I think the look in test20121210.pdf is the right one.

fixed. some more info about the updated mkiv arrow related mechanisms can be found in

http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/about.pdf

(btw, one needs the latest greatest lm/gyre math fonts)

luigi scarso

9:42 a.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...

Hi Everybody,

I am becoming more and more interested in ConTeXt. I am gradually grasping the potential of ConTeXt and its advantages over Lua(La)TeX.

My problem is finding decent documentation for ConTeXt. have you seen also http://www.h2o-boeken.nl/catalog/5 ?

-- luigi

Keith J. Schultz

9:58 a.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

Hi Luigi, I have serval books and seen these, yet I am not sure, yet If I want to put my money down, yet! What is more I do not know if they are necessarily what I need. Then there is the question, if they are up to date enough with the fast advancing MKIV. regards Keith. Am 28.01.2013 um 10:42 schrieb luigi scarso :

...

On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:37 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...
Hi Everybody,

I am becoming more and more interested in ConTeXt. I am gradually grasping the potential of ConTeXt and its advantages over Lua(La)TeX.

My problem is finding decent documentation for ConTeXt. have you seen also http://www.h2o-boeken.nl/catalog/5 ?

Aditya Mahajan

2:23 p.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...

My problem is finding decent documentation for ConTeXt.

Yes, there is ConTeXt Garden. But, let us be honest it is a big mess. It mixes the old, the bad and the good. I will admit the information there has improved greatly, and YET finding the good and recent is not that easy.

Furthermore, since I am interested in what one can and can not do in ConTeXt, I do not know ahead of time exactly what I am looking for. Basically, I literally just stumble over what is good and interesting. That would not be that bad if following the different links would not get one lost and one can not your way back.

See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Getting_started_navbox Aditya

Keith J. Schultz

5:24 p.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

Hi Aditya, Thanx for the link. I have already can across several of the the links on this page/NAV-box(!!), and bookmark them. I had notice such boxes before, but considered them to contain database information and not further links! Learn new things everyday. One thing is for such I can not get to this page via the ConTeXt Main Page! At least I think not. (?) Would be nice if this page was link to from the main page. Again, many thanx. regards Keith. Am 28.01.2013 um 15:23 schrieb Aditya Mahajan :

...

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...
My problem is finding decent documentation for ConTeXt.

Yes, there is ConTeXt Garden. But, let us be honest it is a big mess. It mixes the old, the bad and the good. I will admit the information there has improved greatly, and YET finding the good and recent is not that easy.

Furthermore, since I am interested in what one can and can not do in ConTeXt, I do not know ahead of time exactly what I am looking for. Basically, I literally just stumble over what is good and interesting. That would not be that bad if following the different links would not get one lost and one can not your way back.

See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Template:Getting_started_navbox

Mari Voipio

5:38 p.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

I think that one of the problems is that ConTeXt can do almost anything, if you know how to ask it to do that. What I do is different what most people use it for, but it works (http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-pagedesign.... and http://www.lucet.fi/2013/01/metaposting/ and http://www.lucet.fi/2012/12/twpatterns/). There used to be a project to create a test suite with various types of files, but the links on the wiki refer to something from 2009 and that is, as you say, probably a be obsolete. I remember somebody talking about the test suite at one of the more recent ConTeXt meetings (2011/2012) - anyone with more info on that project? I think it'd help Keith (and many others, me included) to see what can be done. If you do not want to splurge in the books, the revised chapters on typography, fonts and pagedesign are recommended reading and pretty well up-to-date. They are linked to the main page of the garden, but these take you directly to the pdfs: http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-typography.... http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-fonts.pdf http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-pagedesign.... Other than that, it'd be helpful to know what you are looking for: are interested in typography, doing layouts for you and others? Is automated workflow what you are looking for? Dealing with maths? XML? What about dealing with colour? Interactivity? I guess I've resigned to the fact that ConTeXt is so huge that I'll never know more than a fraction of it - so I operate on a need-to-know basis. I learn something either because I'm certain it can be done or because I've seen it at a ConTeXt meeting or heard about it (a remark by Hans is to be blamed for my recent MetaPosting excursions). A slightly off-topic thought: there are hundreds of manuals on Microsoft Word. However, once you start going deeper into the program, it is not *that* easy to find a single good manual on the subject. With ConTeXt it is the other way round, finding 'for Dummies' information is hard, but once you want to dive deep, the developers are on this list to answer questions. Just my five cents on the subject, Mari (who still remembers what things were like before the wiki. this is much better.)

Keith J. Schultz

8:44 p.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

Hi Mari, I thank you for you post. Basically, what I want to do is not in ConTeXt. So will have to develop it myself. One such need I have is the use of Nassi-Schneidermann Diagrams. I also, what to develop something along the line of literate programming. For that I will create Data structures on the Lua side and then visualize with ConTeXt in the form of UML, flowcharts, program specifications and documentation and the output of the actual programming code. Also, there are the things that ConTeXt and Lua(La)TeX do not offer or are not the way I like it. From your Link to the co-font.links.pdf I was able to look at the directory it was in. Interesting, is that its coresponding tex file is a half an year younger! What I do not understand why these documents are not in the standalone distribution. Sure I can search the web, but that has been cumbersome and very time consuming. The last point you mentioned that for the deep down things there is this list. You are right. But, comprehensive manuals are for me. And I want them on my computer. Furthermore I need to understand the ConTeXt (mkiv) programming language so I understand the *mkiv files. Programming is not new to me. regards Keith. Am 28.01.2013 um 18:38 schrieb Mari Voipio :

...

I think that one of the problems is that ConTeXt can do almost anything, if you know how to ask it to do that. What I do is different what most people use it for, but it works (http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-pagedesign.... and http://www.lucet.fi/2013/01/metaposting/ and http://www.lucet.fi/2012/12/twpatterns/).

There used to be a project to create a test suite with various types of files, but the links on the wiki refer to something from 2009 and that is, as you say, probably a be obsolete. I remember somebody talking about the test suite at one of the more recent ConTeXt meetings (2011/2012) - anyone with more info on that project? I think it'd help Keith (and many others, me included) to see what can be done.

If you do not want to splurge in the books, the revised chapters on typography, fonts and pagedesign are recommended reading and pretty well up-to-date. They are linked to the main page of the garden, but these take you directly to the pdfs:

http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-typography.... http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-fonts.pdf http://context.aanhet.net/svn/contextman/context-reference/en/co-pagedesign....

Other than that, it'd be helpful to know what you are looking for: are interested in typography, doing layouts for you and others? Is automated workflow what you are looking for? Dealing with maths? XML? What about dealing with colour? Interactivity?

I guess I've resigned to the fact that ConTeXt is so huge that I'll never know more than a fraction of it - so I operate on a need-to-know basis. I learn something either because I'm certain it can be done or because I've seen it at a ConTeXt meeting or heard about it (a remark by Hans is to be blamed for my recent MetaPosting excursions).

A slightly off-topic thought: there are hundreds of manuals on Microsoft Word. However, once you start going deeper into the program, it is not *that* easy to find a single good manual on the subject. With ConTeXt it is the other way round, finding 'for Dummies' information is hard, but once you want to dive deep, the developers are on this list to answer questions.

Just my five cents on the subject,

Mari (who still remembers what things were like before the wiki. this is much better.) ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Keith J. Schultz

30 Jan 30 Jan

9 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Everybody, Thank you for your help with the documentation. Inorder to teach myself ConTeXt I have to decided to write a learning by doing manual for ConTeXt. First off, I know I can get the formatting needed, by using defineparagraph and setupparagraphs, but then have I have to use start/stop-myparagraph, etc. . Well, I wanted "format" my normal paragraphs. Following, the standard way of doing things in ConTeX, as with headers and wanted to use setupparagraphs. The problem want is the name of the standard(default) paragraph. I have not found any. Is there a name for it. As example lets take I want to have a little space between my paragraph. MWE \setupwhitespace{medium] \startext \stoptext What I would like is to do: MNWE: \setuparagraphs[][][before={\setupwhitespace{medium]] %% or %% \setuparagraphs[][][before=\bigskip] \startext \stoptext In other words there is no way, that I can find to globally set "standard" paragraphs!! The same goes for indenting of paragraphs. Yes, Yes there are the standard indenting commands. I feel though one should be able to use setupparagraphs for this. Also, it took me awhile to find the setupwhitespace command, because for me whitespace can be either horizontal or vertical. I think it would be better to rename it to setupparagraphspacing or something like that. Or at least define a synonym for it. This would make things easier for the casual or beginning user. Maybe I am missing something. Ideas welcome. regards Keith.

Hans Hagen

9:06 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

On 1/30/2013 10:00 AM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for your help with the documentation.

Inorder to teach myself ConTeXt I have to decided to write a learning by doing manual for ConTeXt.

First off, I know I can get the formatting needed, by using defineparagraph and setupparagraphs, but then have I have to use start/stop-myparagraph, etc. .

Well, I wanted "format" my normal paragraphs. Following, the standard way of doing things in ConTeX, as with headers and wanted to use setupparagraphs.

The problem want is the name of the standard(default) paragraph. I have not found any. Is there a name for it.

As example lets take I want to have a little space between my paragraph.

MWE

\setupwhitespace{medium]

\startext

\stoptext

What I would like is to do:

MNWE:

\setuparagraphs[][][before={\setupwhitespace{medium]] %% or %% \setuparagraphs[][][before=\bigskip] \startext

\stoptext

In other words there is no way, that I can find to globally set "standard" paragraphs!!

just say \setupwhitespace{medium] as the \setupparagraphs refers to a special mechanism (kind of table like that predates the tabulate mechanism) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Alain Delmotte

3:07 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi, First I would like to ask not to change messages' subject if you want to see another point. Changing subject breaks the normal links of threads, further it becomes very difficult to find a message embedded in another subject. For a new subject create a new message/thread. I also search for documentation, especially to understand the philosophy of ConTeXt. I did find the thread "From LaTeX to ConTeXt" very interesting because, even if you do not know LaTeX, the steps to obtain certain results are well described, often in many steps more and more professional. Good ConTeXting, Alain Delmotte Le 30/01/2013 10:00, Keith J. Schultz a écrit :

...

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for your help with the documentation.

Inorder to teach myself ConTeXt I have to decided to write a learning by doing manual for ConTeXt.

First off, I know I can get the formatting needed, by using defineparagraph and setupparagraphs, but then have I have to use start/stop-myparagraph, etc. .

Well, I wanted "format" my normal paragraphs. Following, the standard way of doing things in ConTeX, as with headers and wanted to use setupparagraphs.

The problem want is the name of the standard(default) paragraph. I have not found any. Is there a name for it.

As example lets take I want to have a little space between my paragraph.

MWE

\setupwhitespace{medium]

\startext

\stoptext

What I would like is to do:

MNWE:

\setuparagraphs[][][before={\setupwhitespace{medium]] %% or %% \setuparagraphs[][][before=\bigskip] \startext

\stoptext

In other words there is no way, that I can find to globally set "standard" paragraphs!!

The same goes for indenting of paragraphs. Yes, Yes there are the standard indenting commands.

I feel though one should be able to use setupparagraphs for this.

Also, it took me awhile to find the setupwhitespace command, because for me whitespace can be either horizontal or vertical. I think it would be better to rename it to setupparagraphspacing or something like that. Or at least define a synonym for it. This would make things easier for the casual or beginning user.

Maybe I am missing something. Ideas welcome.

regards Keith.

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alain Delmotte

3:08 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

I forgot to give the link : http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt Alain Le 30/01/2013 16:07, Alain Delmotte a écrit :

...

Hi,

First I would like to ask not to change messages' subject if you want to see another point. Changing subject breaks the normal links of threads, further it becomes very difficult to find a message embedded in another subject. For a new subject create a new message/thread.

I also search for documentation, especially to understand the philosophy of ConTeXt. I did find the thread "From LaTeX to ConTeXt" very interesting because, even if you do not know LaTeX, the steps to obtain certain results are well described, often in many steps more and more professional.

Good ConTeXting,

Alain Delmotte

Le 30/01/2013 10:00, Keith J. Schultz a écrit :

...
Hi Everybody,

Thank you for your help with the documentation.

Inorder to teach myself ConTeXt I have to decided to write a learning by doing manual for ConTeXt.

First off, I know I can get the formatting needed, by using defineparagraph and setupparagraphs, but then have I have to use start/stop-myparagraph, etc. .

Well, I wanted "format" my normal paragraphs. Following, the standard way of doing things in ConTeX, as with headers and wanted to use setupparagraphs.

The problem want is the name of the standard(default) paragraph. I have not found any. Is there a name for it.

As example lets take I want to have a little space between my paragraph.

MWE

\setupwhitespace{medium]

\startext

\stoptext

What I would like is to do:

MNWE:

\setuparagraphs[][][before={\setupwhitespace{medium]] %% or %% \setuparagraphs[][][before=\bigskip] \startext

\stoptext

In other words there is no way, that I can find to globally set "standard" paragraphs!!

The same goes for indenting of paragraphs. Yes, Yes there are the standard indenting commands.

I feel though one should be able to use setupparagraphs for this.

Also, it took me awhile to find the setupwhitespace command, because for me whitespace can be either horizontal or vertical. I think it would be better to rename it to setupparagraphspacing or something like that. Or at least define a synonym for it. This would make things easier for the casual or beginning user.

Maybe I am missing something. Ideas welcome.

regards Keith.

___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Keith J. Schultz

6:03 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Alain, Am 30.01.2013 um 16:07 schrieb Alain Delmotte :

...

Hi,

First I would like to ask not to change messages' subject if you want to see another point. Changing subject breaks the normal links of threads, further it becomes very difficult to find a message embedded in another subject. For a new subject create a new message/thread. 1) I was not aware that in the headers that information of the message I hit the reply button on. 2) I would assume that e-mail clients and forums would be smart enough to check the subject like and react appropriately.

At least my e-mail client handles these things gracefully.

...

I also search for documentation, especially to understand the philosophy of ConTeXt. I did find the thread "From LaTeX to ConTeXt" very interesting because, even if you do not know LaTeX, the steps to obtain certain results are well described, often in many steps more and more professional.

I have already seen these. My needs are more sophisiticated and I need programmers manuals and no such users manuals. Thanx regards Keioth.

Thomas A. Schmitz

6:13 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

On 01/30/2013 07:03 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...

I have already seen these. My needs are more sophisiticated and I need programmers manuals and no such users manuals.

Thanx

regards Keioth.

Wow. I think you misspelled your name. And the words "thank you." And you may be too sophisticated for our humble mailing list. Thomas

Alain Delmotte

6:42 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Thomas, It's better not start such a discussion. When I was younger ( :-) ) I was reacting this way, so I understand, but this never helped!!! Regards to both, and, Keith, I'd like to see your programming manual when you have it ready. Alain Le 30/01/2013 19:13, Thomas A. Schmitz a écrit :

...

On 01/30/2013 07:03 PM, Keith J. Schultz wrote:

...
I have already seen these. My needs are more sophisiticated and I need programmers manuals and no such users manuals.

Thanx

regards Keioth.

Wow. I think you misspelled your name. And the words "thank you." And you may be too sophisticated for our humble mailing list.

Thomas ___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Thomas A. Schmitz

6:49 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

On 01/30/2013 07:42 PM, Alain Delmotte wrote:

...

Thomas,

It's better not start such a discussion.

When I was younger ( :-) ) I was reacting this way, so I understand, but this never helped!!!

Regards to both, and, Keith, I'd like to see your programming manual when you have it ready.

Alain

OK, Alain, acknowledged. And I'm happy someone thinks I'm young - will turn 50 this year. All best Thomas

Alain Delmotte

8:14 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi, Le 30/01/2013 19:49, Thomas A. Schmitz a écrit :

...

On 01/30/2013 07:42 PM, Alain Delmotte wrote:

...
Thomas,

It's better not start such a discussion.

When I was younger ( :-) ) I was reacting this way, so I understand, but this never helped!!!

Regards to both, and, Keith, I'd like to see your programming manual when you have it ready.

Alain

OK, Alain, acknowledged. And I'm happy someone thinks I'm young - will turn 50 this year.

Hummmm! Being 66 you are a kid :-) Alain

...

All best

Thomas ___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Keith J. Schultz

31 Jan 31 Jan

12:14 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Alain, If I bring it to fruition, I will offer it to the community. regards Keith Am 30.01.2013 um 19:42 schrieb Alain Delmotte :

...

[snip, snip]

...

Regards to both, and, Keith, I'd like to see your programming manual when you have it ready.

Marco Patzer

30 Jan 30 Jan

6:28 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

On 2013–01–30 Keith J. Schultz wrote:

> > First I would like to ask not to change messages' subject if you want to see another point.
> > Changing subject breaks the normal links of threads, further it becomes very difficult to find a message embedded in another subject.
> > For a new subject create a new message/thread.
> 	1) I was not aware that in the headers that information of the message I hit the reply button on.

There's a reason that mail clients provide two distinct features for
“new mail” and “reply to”. A new mail creates a new thread and a
reply to creates an “In-Reply-To:” header.

> 	2) I would assume that e-mail clients and forums would be smart enough to check the
> 	     subject like and react appropriately.  

You sent a message containing:

  In-Reply-To: <9CBFD630-FEFD-4F75-9E3C-D6BA53B27FF5@web.de>

And that's exactly how email clients should display the message, as
a reply to the message with the given Message-ID. It's totally valid
to change the “Subject” line keeping the thread. An email client has
no built-in crystal ball which could prophesy your intentions.

>   At least my e-mail client handles these things gracefully.

I would consider filing a bug report.

Marco

Wolfgang Schuster

8:56 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Am 30.01.2013 um 10:00 schrieb Keith J. Schultz :

...

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for your help with the documentation.

Inorder to teach myself ConTeXt I have to decided to write a learning by doing manual for ConTeXt.

First off, I know I can get the formatting needed, by using defineparagraph and setupparagraphs, but then have I have to use start/stop-myparagraph, etc. .

Well, I wanted "format" my normal paragraphs. Following, the standard way of doing things in ConTeX, as with headers and wanted to use setupparagraphs.

The problem want is the name of the standard(default) paragraph. I have not found any. Is there a name for it.

As example lets take I want to have a little space between my paragraph.

MWE

\setupwhitespace{medium]

\startext

\stoptext

What I would like is to do:

MNWE:

\setuparagraphs[][][before={\setupwhitespace{medium]] %% or %% \setuparagraphs[][][before=\bigskip] \startext

\stoptext

In other words there is no way, that I can find to globally set "standard" paragraphs!!

The same goes for indenting of paragraphs. Yes, Yes there are the standard indenting commands.

I feel though one should be able to use setupparagraphs for this.

Also, it took me awhile to find the setupwhitespace command, because for me whitespace can be either horizontal or vertical. I think it would be better to rename it to setupparagraphspacing or something like that. Or at least define a synonym for it. This would make things easier for the casual or beginning user.

Which space do you mean in horizontal direction?

...

Maybe I am missing something. Ideas welcome.

The problem with the formatting of paragraphs is that TeX (the engine) has no big concept about paragraphs. When you want to change the font or color for a paragraph you have to change the values of the document with \setupbodyfont[…] or \setupcolors[textcolor=…]. For local changes for a certain paragraph you can apply these values in a group (to change the color you can just use \startcolor[…] … \stopcolor). ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF. The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name. Wolfgang

Keith J. Schultz

31 Jan 31 Jan

8:40 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Wolfgang, Am 30.01.2013 um 21:56 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster :

...

Am 30.01.2013 um 10:00 schrieb Keith J. Schultz :

...
Hi Everybody,

[snip, snip]

...

...
Also, it took me awhile to find the setupwhitespace command, because for me whitespace can be either horizontal or vertical. I think it would be better to rename it to setupparagraphspacing or something like that. Or at least define a synonym for it. This would make things easier for the casual or beginning user.

Which space do you mean in horizontal direction? O.K. Traditionally in typesetting and typography whitespace is just that white space. White space can also be inter-word spacing (horizontal).

Since ConTeXt's setupwhitespace just maps to the parskip-demension I personally find the name confusing. Possible for a synonym one maybe should use then setparagraphskip. This is just a suggestion.

...

...
Maybe I am missing something. Ideas welcome.

The problem with the formatting of paragraphs is that TeX (the engine) has no big concept about paragraphs.

When you want to change the font or color for a paragraph you have to change the values of the document with \setupbodyfont[…] or \setupcolors[textcolor=…]. For local changes for a certain paragraph you can apply these values in a group (to change the color you can just use \startcolor[…] … \stopcolor).

I am aware of this. Since, I noticed the the paragraph(s) environment, I only assume that the functioned similar to the header environments. My mistake! It would have been nice, if ConTeXt had such an environment. I do not know how ConTeXt processes things internally, but since it is a front end, ConTeXt could have the syntactic sugar of a "paragraph"-environment. That is that, while parsing the source it injects groups into the code it outputs for the paragraphs. This would give us then "paragraph"-layout. Naturally, this is not a TeX way, but could be a ConTeXt way.

...

ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

regards Keith

Wolfgang Schuster

4:24 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Am 31.01.2013 um 09:40 schrieb Keith J. Schultz :

...

It would have been nice, if ConTeXt had such an environment. I do not know how ConTeXt processes things internally, but since it is a front end, ConTeXt could have the syntactic sugar of a "paragraph"-environment. That is that, while parsing the source it injects groups into the code it outputs for the paragraphs. This would give us then "paragraph"-layout. Naturally, this is not a TeX way, but could be a ConTeXt way.

ConTeXt *has* a paragraph environment! \starttext \startparagraph This is the first paragraph. \stopparagraph \startparagraph This is another paragraph. \stopparagraph \stoptext Wolfgang

Keith J. Schultz

10:02 p.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Wolfgang, You do seem to understand what I am getting at! I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them. Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...

ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation. regards Keith Am 31.01.2013 um 17:24 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster :

...

Am 31.01.2013 um 09:40 schrieb Keith J. Schultz :

...
It would have been nice, if ConTeXt had such an environment. I do not know how ConTeXt processes things internally, but since it is a front end, ConTeXt could have the syntactic sugar of a "paragraph"-environment. That is that, while parsing the source it injects groups into the code it outputs for the paragraphs. This would give us then "paragraph"-layout. Naturally, this is not a TeX way, but could be a ConTeXt way.

ConTeXt *has* a paragraph environment!

\starttext

\startparagraph This is the first paragraph. \stopparagraph

\startparagraph This is another paragraph. \stopparagraph

\stoptext

Wolfgang

Wolfgang Schuster

1 Feb 1 Feb

3:58 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Am 31.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb "Keith J. Schultz" :

...

Hi Wolfgang,

You do seem to understand what I am getting at!

I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them.

\startsetups[paragraph:german] \language[german] \stopsetups \startsetups[paragraph:double] \setupinterlinespace[big] \stopsetups \startsetups[paragraph:indenting] \setupindenting[yes,medium] \stopsetups \defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] \defineparagraph[indent][setups=paragraph:indenting] \defineparagraph[red] [color=red] \defineparagraph[italic][style=italic] \setupwhitespace[line] \starttext \startparagraph \input reich \stopparagraph \startparagraph[german] \input reich \stopparagraph \startparagraph[big] \input reich \stopparagraph \startparagraph[indent] \input reich \stopparagraph \startparagraph[red] \input reich \stopparagraph \startparagraph[italic] \input reich \stopparagraph \stoptext

...

Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...
ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation.

You can use \definestartsetup or \definebuffer to create your own environments. Wolfgang

Alain Delmotte

7:46 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Wolfgang, Using MkIV, version 2013.01.24 i get an error about \defineparagraph: ! Undefined control sequence. system > tex > error on line 25 in file first.tex: Undefined control sequence ... [...] 24 25 >> \defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] 26 \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] [...] l.25 \defineparagraph [german][setups=paragraph:german] ? ! Emergency stop. Thanks for all the answers you, patiently, give to newbies. Regards, Alain Le 1/02/2013 04:58, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :

...

Am 31.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb "Keith J. Schultz" mailto:keithjschultz@web.de>:

...
Hi Wolfgang,

You do seem to understand what I am getting at!

I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them.

\startsetups[paragraph:german] \language[german] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:double] \setupinterlinespace[big] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:indenting] \setupindenting[yes,medium] \stopsetups

\defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] \defineparagraph[indent][setups=paragraph:indenting] \defineparagraph[red] [color=red] \defineparagraph[italic][style=italic]

\setupwhitespace[line]

\starttext

\startparagraph \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[german] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[big] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[indent] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[red] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[italic] \input reich \stopparagraph

\stoptext

...
Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...
ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation.

You can use \definestartsetup or \definebuffer to create your own environments.

Wolfgang

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Devendra Ghate

7:47 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

On 02/01/2013 01:16 PM, Alain Delmotte wrote:

...

Hi Wolfgang,

Using MkIV, version 2013.01.24 i get an error about \defineparagraph:

! Undefined control sequence.

system > tex > error on line 25 in file first.tex: Undefined control sequence ...

[...] 24 25 >> \defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] 26 \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] [...] l.25 \defineparagraph [german][setups=paragraph:german] ? ! Emergency stop.

Thanks for all the answers you, patiently, give to newbies.

Regards,

Alain

Alain, Update MKIV. I had the same problem earlier. It works. Devendra

...

Le 1/02/2013 04:58, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :

...
Am 31.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb "Keith J. Schultz" mailto:keithjschultz@web.de>:

...
Hi Wolfgang,

You do seem to understand what I am getting at!

I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them.

\startsetups[paragraph:german] \language[german] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:double] \setupinterlinespace[big] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:indenting] \setupindenting[yes,medium] \stopsetups

\defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] \defineparagraph[indent][setups=paragraph:indenting] \defineparagraph[red] [color=red] \defineparagraph[italic][style=italic]

\setupwhitespace[line]

\starttext

\startparagraph \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[german] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[big] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[indent] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[red] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[italic] \input reich \stopparagraph

\stoptext

...
Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...
ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation.

You can use \definestartsetup or \definebuffer to create your own environments.

Wolfgang

___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Alain Delmotte

8:34 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi again, OK I just updated context, asking for all modules, and now I don't have any more error. Thanks, Alain Le 1/02/2013 04:58, Wolfgang Schuster a écrit :

...

Am 31.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb "Keith J. Schultz" mailto:keithjschultz@web.de>:

...
Hi Wolfgang,

You do seem to understand what I am getting at!

I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them.

\startsetups[paragraph:german] \language[german] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:double] \setupinterlinespace[big] \stopsetups

\startsetups[paragraph:indenting] \setupindenting[yes,medium] \stopsetups

\defineparagraph[german][setups=paragraph:german] \defineparagraph[big] [setups=paragraph:double] \defineparagraph[indent][setups=paragraph:indenting] \defineparagraph[red] [color=red] \defineparagraph[italic][style=italic]

\setupwhitespace[line]

\starttext

\startparagraph \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[german] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[big] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[indent] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[red] \input reich \stopparagraph

\startparagraph[italic] \input reich \stopparagraph

\stoptext

...
Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...
ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation.

You can use \definestartsetup or \definebuffer to create your own environments.

Wolfgang

___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Keith J. Schultz

9:56 a.m.

New subject: Possible inconsistency in the use of paragraphs in ConTeXt

Hi Wolfgang, I do apologize. ConTeXt, does have the functionality that I was suggesting. I must say though that it seems just 2-3 weeks young and searching for the command defineparagraph brings up Nil on ConTeXt Garden. Thank, you for the example. Yet, is not quite what I had in mind. But, that does not matter for right now. Hans already said it is non trivial to get the functionality of what I has suggest. Which was to introduce the concept of a "paragraph" into ConTeXt that TeX does not have and not have to use startparagraph and stopparagraph all the time for a "standard" paragraph. Yes, Yes, I know how to use setupbodyfont, setupdenting, and the likes for that! I was aware that I could develop my own environments for paragraphs The paragraph environment does pretty much close the gap and it will be very beneficial to the beginners and converts. Thanx to whoever did the work and to you, too. regards Keith. Am 01.02.2013 um 04:58 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster :

...

Am 31.01.2013 um 23:02 schrieb "Keith J. Schultz" :

...
Hi Wolfgang,

You do seem to understand what I am getting at!

I purposely put "paragraph" in quotes. because the environment that I have suggest was one that had setups for bodyfont, color, indenting etc. and one can just like the headers have control over them.

[deleted example for brevities sake]

...

...
Furthermore, you have stated on the on the 30th:

...
ConTeXt provides also a paragraph environment but this add only tags when you export the document as XML or create a tagged PDF.

The paragraphs (note the "s") environment has a Hans already mentioned nothing to do with paragraphs, it just puts the content on columns where each column can con tai multiple paragraphs. The name for the environment is misleading because columns is already taken as name.

Thank you anyway. I will look into creating what I need on my own. I already have an idea. Just need to figure out the implementation.

You can use \definestartsetup or \definebuffer to create your own environments.

Hans Hagen

29 Jan 29 Jan

8:43 a.m.

New subject: Finding documentation for ConTeXt

On 1/28/2013 6:38 PM, Mari Voipio wrote:

...

There used to be a project to create a test suite with various types of files, but the links on the wiki refer to something from 2009 and that is, as you say, probably a be obsolete. I remember somebody talking about the test suite at one of the more recent ConTeXt

there's a zip file with lots of examples and tests on the website that is used as (part of the) test suite Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

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participants (12)

Aditya Mahajan
Alain Delmotte
Devendra Ghate
Hans Hagen
Keith J. Schultz
luigi scarso
Marco Patzer
Mari Voipio
Mikael P. Sundqvist
Otared Kavian
Thomas A. Schmitz
Wolfgang Schuster