On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 09:32, luigi scarso wrote:

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2) why python ? We have lua in luatex; mkiv has a lot of lua code about fonts.

Hmmm ... the guy who spent most of his time in community trying to make python work with ConTeXt is now complaining about the programming language? Come on ... :) I'm not say that it's wrong. It's the same as if I write a lua script to do "XYZ" for Plone: why ? There are a lot of python code in Plone that probably can be used to do "XYZ".

Whenever I write something I use the language I master most (even if it's not the most suitable language for that task), so I guess that must be the reason. But if the script proves to be useful, it's still short enough that anyone could convert it to Lua to get rid of dependencies on yet another language.

A python's programmer has no problem to write a lua version (and a javascript programmer too, as Mathias Nater showed to me) The key point here is the dependency on another language: for luatex it's almost useless to use a scripting/dynamic language other than lua (I hope one day we will end without ruby and perl for mkiv too, if reasonable) . Of course perl, ruby. python, are all goods programming languages but mixing them together not always make a good pie . -- luigi

On 4-6-2010 10:03, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 09:32, luigi scarso wrote:

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2) why python ? We have lua in luatex; mkiv has a lot of lua code about fonts.

Hmmm ... the guy who spent most of his time in community trying to make python work with ConTeXt is now complaining about the programming language? Come on ... :)

Whenever I write something I use the language I master most (even if it's not the most suitable language for that task), so I guess that must be the reason. But if the script proves to be useful, it's still short enough that anyone could convert it to Lua to get rid of dependencies on yet another language.

indeed; th ecore programs with context are on lua as it makes us independent of other installed programs but additional tools can be in any language (perl, ruby, python etc) in that sense i think that Michael's script is for otf what texfont.rb is/was for type 1 so it's a nice addition i'm not sure if a binary is needed as most users can simply install python Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On 04/06/2010 10:50, luigi scarso wrote:

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

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On 4-6-2010 10:03, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

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Whenever I write something I use the language I master most (even if it's not the most suitable language for that task), so I guess that must be the reason.

As I said, it started out as a private project, but just wanted to see if others found it useful. It is not at all like the 'simplefonts' module, since it has absolutely no integration with ConTeXt. It simply reads in .otf files and spits out typescripts, which can then be used in ConTeXt. I will try to get an .exe out in the next few days. I'm also starting to think that it might be possible to use otfinfo from the lcdf typetools to get information about a font, rather than trying to work it out from the filename. This might mean being able to use fonts other than those from Adobe, which would be nice. -- Michael Murphy

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:52, Michael Murphy wrote:

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I'm also starting to think that it might be possible to use otfinfo from the lcdf typetools to get information about a font

Just note: you can get an enormous amount of font information with luatex. Just a note x you : where is showttf ?

-- luigi

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 18:08, Michael Murphy wrote:

On 04/06/2010 12:00, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

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Just note: you can get an enormous amount of font information with luatex.

If you can get so much information out of LuaTeX, why do we need typescripts in the first place?

1.) The typescripts have been written long before LuaTeX existed. 2.) The typescripts still work is almost exactly the same way as they did before 3.) Your can read a lot of information about a specific font (which features are available, which glyphs exist etc. etc. etc.), but that still doesn't give you any information about which fonts you want to combine together and which features you want to use. Take Antykwa Półtawskiego. It comes as regular/italic, in 4 weights (light, normal, medium, bold), in 5 widths (extended, semi-extended, normal, semi-condensed, condensed), about 5 encodings for MKII. You need to tell to ConTeXt somehow whether you want to combine light and medium or normal weight and bold, or maybe normal with semi-extended bold, you may want the size to adapt automatically when you change font size. There is also no reliable way to determine which fonts belong together. You still need to assign a font with a variant somehow. Reading info about a font doesn't really solve the problem of "being able to automatically assign rm, bf, bi etc.", but I admit that there *IS* room for improvement for font handling mechanism in a more user-friendly way (and lua can be of enormous help of course). Mojca

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Michael Murphy wrote:

I will try to get an .exe out in the next few days. I'm also starting to think that it might be possible to use otfinfo from the lcdf typetools to get information about a font, rather than trying to work it out from the filename. This might mean being able to use fonts other than those from Adobe, which would be nice. You can also see ttx: is written in python http://sourceforge.net/projects/fonttools/

-- luigi

On 4-6-2010 12:21, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

We might even have an official discussion on the schedule about typescripts and how to simplify and/or improve them.

.. and how those hugs polish font collections spoil any systematic approach -) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, Jun 04, 2010 at 12:29:32PM +0200, luigi scarso wrote:

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

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On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:52, Michael Murphy wrote:

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As I said, it started out as a private project, but just wanted to see if others found it useful.

What about presenting your work at the ConTeXt conference and in MAPS magazine?

You'll be able to meet the biggest ConTeXt gurus there, learn a lot from them, Luigi will give you a short lesson on "Why I switched from Python to Lua" "Because it's better That's all folks -- free time now"

The best presentation ever, even better than Taco's one at last eurotex meeting.

I switched from python to Lua x context, this is true; I'm still using it for other tasks, particularly Plone, and sometimes sagemath. It's not a bad language at all.

When it comes to writing non-luatex code, I'll pick python anytime of the day, a light language with almost no standard library is not what one always need. -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer

On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 11:52, Michael Murphy wrote:

On 04/06/2010 10:50, luigi scarso wrote:

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On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Hans Hagen  wrote:

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On 4-6-2010 10:03, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

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Whenever I write something I use the language I master most (even if it's not the most suitable language for that task), so I guess that must be the reason.

As I said, it started out as a private project, but just wanted to see if others found it useful. It is not at all like the 'simplefonts' module, since it has absolutely no integration with ConTeXt. It simply reads in .otf files and spits out typescripts, which can then be used in ConTeXt.

I will try to get an .exe out in the next few days. I'm also starting to think that it might be possible to use otfinfo from the lcdf typetools to get information about a font, rather than trying to work it out from the filename. This might mean being able to use fonts other than those from Adobe, which would be nice.

Although a Perl user, I like your Python script, Michael ! Thanks