Hi, I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples were posted for testing the structure code maybe we can set up a repository with such test files (but someone needs to coordinate it) where they can end up after posting and fixing possible errors in the examples; we do need some ordering Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Monday 15 June 2009 10:02:35 Hans Hagen wrote:
I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples were posted for testing the structure code
% Example taken from cont-enp.pdf % However, adding \part{} is problematic... % (maybe someone can correct this?) % \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided,way=bytext,partnumber=no] \setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no] \doifmode{mkiv}{ \setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1] \setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5] } \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chapter ] \setuplist[chapter][label=yes] \setuplist[part,chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection] [partnumber=no,interaction=all,alternative=c] % number – title – dots – pagenumber \starttext \startfrontmatter \completecontent \chapter{Introduction} % in content, no number \stopfrontmatter \startbodymatter \part{Beginning} \chapter{First} % number 1, in content \section{Alfa} % number 1.1, in content \section{Beta} % number 1.2, in content \chapter{Second} % number 2, in content \subject{Blabla} % no number, not in content \part{End} \chapter{Third} % number 3, in content \stopbodymatter \startappendices \chapter{Index} % letter A, in content \chapter{Abbreviations} % letter B, in content \stopappendices \startbackmatter \chapter{Acknowlegdement} % no number, in content \title{Colofon} % no number, not in content \stopbackmatter \stoptext
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
On Monday 15 June 2009 10:02:35 Hans Hagen wrote:
I was wondering ... the last time quite some nice small test samples were posted for testing the structure code
% Example taken from cont-enp.pdf % However, adding \part{} is problematic... % (maybe someone can correct this?) % \setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided,way=bytext,partnumber=no] \setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no] \doifmode{mkiv}{ \setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1] \setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5] } \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chapter ] \setuplist[chapter][label=yes] \setuplist[part,chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection] [partnumber=no,interaction=all,alternative=c] % number – title – dots – pagenumber
keys like partnumber (<section>number) are obsolete ... and replace by prefxset etc (see strc-def.mkiv for example definitions) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
In my experience, a \part is generally (except in some rather technical documents) not treated as a super-chapter, that is chapter numbers (and titles) are not reset and retain their status as if the book was not divided into parts. A very long work is commonly broken into "volumes". Here, each volume may or may not reset chapter numbers. Page numbering may or may not reflect the volume number. This is a sylistic choice. In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments. Alan On Thursday 02 July 2009 23:25:57 Hans Hagen wrote:
keys like partnumber (<section>number) are obsolete ... and replace by prefxset etc (see strc-def.mkiv for example definitions)
Obsolete in mkii? Shouldn't basic use (read standard users) treat source text transparently between mkii and mkiv? \setuphead[part][placehead=yes,resetnumber=no] \doifmodeelse{mkiv}{ \setuphead[part][sectionsegments=1:1] \setupstructureheads[sectionsegments=2:5] } { \setuppagenumbering[partnumber=no] \setuplist[chapter,section,subsection,subsubsection] [partnumber=no] }
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
Obsolete in mkii? Shouldn't basic use (read standard users) treat source text transparently between mkii and mkiv?
no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Am 03.07.2009 um 16:04 schrieb Hans Hagen:
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I tried a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful. Wolfgang
Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 03.07.2009 um 16:04 schrieb Hans Hagen:
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I tried a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful.
needs a fix (seems to be old code mixed into newer) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Wolfgang
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
there will be presets but i had no time yet to make them
Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I tried a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful.
i redid that bit of code so we now have \definestructureresetset[default][0,1,1,0][1] % normally we use the shared default so there is no need to configure % all levels (confusing anyway) % % \setuphead[part][sectionresetset=default] \starttext \placelist[chapter,section,subsection][criterium=all,width=3cm] \part{first} \chapter{alpha} \section{a} \section{b} \subsection{x} \subsection{y} \chapter{beta} \part{second} \chapter{gamma} \section{a} \section{b} \subsection{x} \subsection{y} \chapter{delta} \stoptext (this example resets only chapter and section) (only in the experimental version on the ftp) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Friday 03 July 2009 16:04:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
Obsolete in mkii? Shouldn't basic use (read standard users) treat source text transparently between mkii and mkiv?
no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks
I understand and I do agree, basically. However, any (and all) differences need to be clearly documented. I know that you are working on this. Perhaps we need to put together a mkii->mkiv changes summary document, from the users point of view updating http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV (or Mark_IV_differences). I am aware of a few differences, but am far from having a complete view. On Sunday 05 July 2009 11:32:35 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Can you give a example how to continue chapter numbering over parts, I tried a few settings with \definestructureresetset but I wasn't very successful.
Yes, please provide an example. I too have tried different blind guesses and have not succeeded either. Alan
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
On Friday 03 July 2009 16:04:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
Obsolete in mkii? Shouldn't basic use (read standard users) treat source text transparently between mkii and mkiv? no, this is one of the few places where there will be a difference; we have way more control now (also to the detail of setting up styles for each separator in a composed number) but that comes at a price; i don't want to complicate the mkiv code with too many compatibility hacks
I understand and I do agree, basically. However, any (and all) differences need to be clearly documented. I know that you are working on this. Perhaps we need to put together a mkii->mkiv changes summary document, from the users point of view updating http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Mark_IV (or Mark_IV_differences).
feel free to document this on the wiki we can tag such incompatibilities as 'permanent', 'temporary' and 'to be discussed' there will also be a module that collects a couple of 'obsolete' commands (often obsolete because we have better methods now but some ancient style might use them) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
In my understanding, \part serves to delimit logical sections of related chapters, not volumes. Maybe I am wrong in this interpretation; maybe \part is to be used to delimit volumes. Nevertheless, it should be relatively simple for the basic user to be able to select the desired behavior without having to acquire an understanding of the inner workings such as prefixsets and sectionsegments.
part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special
It is a question of default setup. \part is configured differently : no title, additional page number, etc. My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and latex). Alan
Am 09.07.2009 um 09:59 schrieb Alan BRASLAU:
On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special
It is a question of default setup. \part is configured differently : no title, additional page number, etc. My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and latex).
The part handling in ConTeXt (MkII) is different from the one in LaTeX, ConTeXt resets the chapter number while in LaTeX the chapter number continues over parts. Wolfgang
Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 09.07.2009 um 09:59 schrieb Alan BRASLAU:
On Thursday 09 July 2009 09:38:07 Hans Hagen wrote:
part is just the first level of sectioning and happens to be configured in such a way that it does not show a title; really nothing special
It is a question of default setup. \part is configured differently : no title, additional page number, etc. My suggestion is to behave by default (mkiv) as under mkii (and latex).
The part handling in ConTeXt (MkII) is different from the one in LaTeX, ConTeXt resets the chapter number while in LaTeX the chapter number continues over parts.
we (on the wiki) collect reasonable default combinations and then cook up some mechanism that enables them, \setupstructure [preset=...] or so (presets can be just setups in a reserved namespace) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
First question: Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage? (in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK, but not \in{chapter}!) Second question: How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}? Third question: Why is the chapter label text blank by default? Thanks. Alan Minimal example: \mainlanguage[fr] \setupinteraction[state=start] \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default? \starttext \chapter[ch:first]{Premier} \placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{} \chapter[ch:second]{Second} \in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots \stoptext
Hi, On Jul 2, 2009, at 9:17 PM, Alan BRASLAU wrote:
First question: Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage? (in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK, but not \in{chapter}!)
The text included in the braces must be in french \in{chaptre}[ref]
Second question: How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?
Hm, do not know, my test do not reveal the expected result
Third question: Why is the chapter label text blank by default?
If I understand you correctly you want Chaptre 1 The title of the chapter. In this case I would say, that this uncommon to use at least in Dutch and German. In case you need it you have to set the labeltext.
Thanks. Alan
Minimal example:
\mainlanguage[fr]
\setupinteraction[state=start] \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default? \starttext
\chapter[ch:first]{Premier} \placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{} \chapter[ch:second]{Second}
\in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots
\stoptext
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Thanks for the hints. On Thursday 02 July 2009 23:07:43 Willi Egger wrote:
Second question: How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?
Hm, do not know, my test do not reveal the expected result
\in{Figure}? (perhaps this should be a suggestion for a new feature)
If I understand you correctly you want Chaptre 1 The title of the chapter. In this case I would say, that this uncommon to use at least in Dutch and German. In case you need it you have to set the labeltext.
One commonly finds both cases in English as well as in French. This also is the default in the LaTeX book class (based on common English usage. [However, maybe this is a bad idea...]). Sometimes, the label text only appears in the table of contents, not on the first page of the chapter. I am not an expert, and only refer to a sampling of the books in my bookcase (sorry, I do not have any books in Dutch!) Rather than setting the labeltext (ConTeXt already knows the labeltext), I would suggest a switch, such as \setuphead[chapter][placelabel=yes] (OK if "no" by default, to conform to common usage in many languages) Alan
Alan BRASLAU wrote:
First question: Should the reference labels follow \mainlanguage? (in the example below [fr], by chance, \in{figure} might seem OK, but not \in{chapter}!)
Second question: How can one \Cap{\in{figure}}?
Third question: Why is the chapter label text blank by default?
Thanks. Alan
Minimal example:
\mainlanguage[fr]
\setupinteraction[state=start] \setuplabeltext[chapter=Chaptre ] % why is this not by default? \starttext
\chapter[ch:first]{Premier} \placefigure[here][fig:1-1] {}{} \chapter[ch:second]{Second}
\in{figure}[fig:1-1] du \in{chapter}[ch:first]\ldots
\stoptext
actually, in mkiv we have info available that permit ssoem auto label approach ... remind me in a couple of weeks ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
participants (4)
-
Alan BRASLAU -
Hans Hagen -
Willi Egger -
Wolfgang Schuster