support for "SUBSCRIPT THREE" etc. ?

Peter Münster

21 Jul 2009 21 Jul '09

3:54 a.m.

Hello, Is support for unicode range 0x2080-0x2089 planned? Superscript works well, but not the subscript: \starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext I need it for something like this: \usemodule[vim] \definevimtyping[C][syntax=c] \starttext \startC for(expr₁; expr₂; expr₃) instruction \stopC \stoptext Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

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Khaled Hosny

21 Jul 21 Jul

4:27 a.m.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:54:02AM +0200, Peter Münster wrote:

...

Hello,

Is support for unicode range 0x2080-0x2089 planned?

Superscript works well, but not the subscript:

\starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext

Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them. I think there is a way to use ConTeXt commands inside verbatim environments, but I don't recall it. Regards, Khaled -- Khaled Hosny Arabic localiser and member of Arabeyes.org team Free font developer

Matthijs Kooijman

4:38 a.m.

...

I think there is a way to use ConTeXt commands inside verbatim environments, but I don't recall it. I think this is the "option=commands" option for setuptyping & friends. AFAIK

Hi Peter & Khaled, this means you need to use /TEX /ETEX around your commands or something, but I'm not completely sure. It seems this only works in MkII, it wasn't implemented in MkIV a month ago at least. Gr. Matthijs

Hans Hagen

3:09 p.m.

Matthijs Kooijman wrote:

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Hi Peter & Khaled,

...
I think there is a way to use ConTeXt commands inside verbatim environments, but I don't recall it. I think this is the "option=commands" option for setuptyping & friends. AFAIK this means you need to use /TEX /ETEX around your commands or something, but I'm not completely sure. It seems this only works in MkII, it wasn't implemented in MkIV a month ago at least.

indeed, if it is introduced again it will be done differently ... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Mojca Miklavec

4:50 a.m.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:27, Khaled Hosny wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:54:02AM +0200, Peter Münster wrote:

...
Hello,

Is support for unicode range 0x2080-0x2089 planned?

Superscript works well, but not the subscript:

\starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext

Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

In MKIV one could theoretically fix the (virtual) font with subscript three containing "\sub{3}" *** or "lowered superscript 3" :) *** The problem is that you would probably loose "monospace" by doing that, but maybe you are not using monospace at all. Mojca

Hans Hagen

3:10 p.m.

Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 12:27, Khaled Hosny wrote:

...
...
Hello,

Is support for unicode range 0x2080-0x2089 planned?

Superscript works well, but not the subscript:

\starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base

On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:54:02AM +0200, Peter Münster wrote: line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

In MKIV one could theoretically fix the (virtual) font with subscript three containing "\sub{3}" *** or "lowered superscript 3" :)

*** The problem is that you would probably loose "monospace" by doing that, but maybe you are not using monospace at all.

it's also font dependent and we would en dup with fallback mess etc etc if the font has the glyph, you can use the unicode char, bu tit is unlikely that there will be a mapping mechanism ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Michail Vidiassov

10:42 p.m.

Dear Hans and All, On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Hans Hagen wrote:

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...
...
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Superscript works well, but not the subscript:

\starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

In MKIV one could theoretically fix the (virtual) font with subscript three containing "\sub{3}" *** or "lowered superscript 3" :)

it's also font dependent and we would en dup with fallback mess etc etc

if the font has the glyph, you can use the unicode char, bu tit is unlikely that there will be a mapping mechanism

What about an analog of "ucs" LaTeX package, when Unicode math subscripts (and other symbols) in TeX file are replaced by "\sub{3}" etc., regardless of the font used for typesetting? It will give WYSIWYG-like appearance of the input file on the screen in the editor using Unicode font and will not bring the mess deep into ConTeXt? Is such thing doable? (Not making a set of mappings for presonal use, but proper package for public consumption?) Sincerely, Michail

Aditya Mahajan

11:47 p.m.

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Michail Vidiassov wrote:

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Dear Hans and All,

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Hans Hagen wrote:

...
...
...
...
Superscript works well, but not the subscript:

\starttext x³ x₃ \stoptext Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

In MKIV one could theoretically fix the (virtual) font with subscript three containing "\sub{3}" *** or "lowered superscript 3" :)

it's also font dependent and we would en dup with fallback mess etc etc

if the font has the glyph, you can use the unicode char, bu tit is unlikely that there will be a mapping mechanism

What about an analog of "ucs" LaTeX package, when Unicode math subscripts (and other symbols) in TeX file are replaced by "\sub{3}" etc., regardless of the font used for typesetting?

Most of the support is already there (except superscripts and subscripts). MKII implemented this support using active characters (similar to what ucs does). MKIV does this using virtual fonts.

...

It will give WYSIWYG-like appearance of the input file on the screen in the editor using Unicode font and will not bring the mess deep into ConTeXt?

Is such thing doable? (Not making a set of mappings for presonal use, but proper package for public consumption?)

For most glyphs the support is already there. Making sure that multiple glyphs are combined correctly is tricier. We can have an input like $ŵ¹$ and it is not always easy to determine if it should be translated to ${\hat w}^1$ or $\hat {w^1}$. Microsoft implmented something like this in newer versions of Word. See the developer's blog for more detials. http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2009/05/07/entering-math-via-the-linea... Aditya

Hans Hagen

22 Jul 22 Jul

5:07 a.m.

Aditya Mahajan wrote:

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Microsoft implmented something like this in newer versions of Word. See the developer's blog for more detials. http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2009/05/07/entering-math-via-the-linea...

Well, we can consider supporting linear math .. \unexpanded\def\startmathzone {\ifvmode \Ustartdisplaymath \let\stopmathzone\Ustopdisplaymath \else \Ustartmath \let\stopmathzone\Ustopmath \fi} \defineactivecharacter "23A8 \startmathzone \defineactivecharacter "23AC \stopmathzone \catcode"3016=\begingroupcatcode \catcode"3017=\endgroupcatcode \utfchar{"23A8}x^\utfchar{"3016}1+2\utfchar{"3017}\utfchar{"23AC} The question is if we do it this way using a special math catcode regime, but that does not work when we pass it as argument unless we mess around with some math codes - like prime does) or use a parser (which is not that hard to do and is needed for things like sin/cos anyway) i'll have a look at it (given that it's a frozen 'standard') Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Hans Hagen

1:48 a.m.

Michail Vidiassov wrote:

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What about an analog of "ucs" LaTeX package, when Unicode math subscripts (and other symbols) in TeX file are replaced by "\sub{3}" etc., regardless of the font used for typesetting?

the reverse mapping is doable and on the agenda (normally i do such things when i run into it in a project)

...

It will give WYSIWYG-like appearance of the input file on the screen in the editor using Unicode font and will not bring the mess deep into ConTeXt?

well, editors is another case as not all fonts used in editors have such characters so your file becomes quite unportable unless the editor implements some fallback mechanism there's also a subscript font feature but often such features are implemented incomplete in fonts (like frac) and quite unuseable unless more logic in the engine is added (again, something that i will look into when i have a reason)

...

Is such thing doable? (Not making a set of mappings for presonal use, but proper package for public consumption?)

it would be core functionality as it involved manupulating the internal math node lists Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Peter Münster

21 Jul 21 Jul

5:19 a.m.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Khaled Hosny wrote:

...

Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

Hello, In char-def.lua there is: [0x2074]={ category="no", cjkwd="a", description="SUPERSCRIPT FOUR", direction="en", linebreak="ai", specials={ "super", 0x0034 }, unicodeslot=0x2074, }, [...] [0x2084]={ category="no", cjkwd="a", description="SUBSCRIPT FOUR", direction="en", linebreak="ai", specials={ "sub", 0x0034 }, unicodeslot=0x2084, }, So I supposed, that the "specials" are for faking or simulating the unicode character, for example ² -> \superscript{2} or similar. Perhaps, my assumption is just wrong...

...

I think there is a way to use ConTeXt commands inside verbatim environments, but I don't recall it.

Yes, BTEX...ETEX, but not with the t-vim module. Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Aditya Mahajan

8:55 a.m.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Peter Münster wrote:

...

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Khaled Hosny wrote:

...
Unicode sub/superscripts aren't real sub/superscripts, and there use is discouraged. Most fonts will align those subscript glyphs to the base line not bellow it, and apparently LM fonts don't have them.

Hello,

In char-def.lua there is:

[0x2074]={ category="no", cjkwd="a", description="SUPERSCRIPT FOUR", direction="en", linebreak="ai", specials={ "super", 0x0034 }, unicodeslot=0x2074, }, [...] [0x2084]={ category="no", cjkwd="a", description="SUBSCRIPT FOUR", direction="en", linebreak="ai", specials={ "sub", 0x0034 }, unicodeslot=0x2084, },

So I supposed, that the "specials" are for faking or simulating the unicode character, for example ² -> \superscript{2} or similar. Perhaps, my assumption is just wrong...

I am not sure whethere specials work at all. I am assuming that SUPERSCIRPT ONE, TWO, and THREE work because the LM font contain them at the right spot. These are less than hex FF. The others, for example, SUPERSCIRPT ZERO and SUPERSCRIPT FOUR do not work because they are not (AFAIU) mapped to any place in LM fonts. I don't even know if LM fonts have these or not. The same is true for SUBSCRIPT. If you use a opentype font like cambria, superscripts and subscripts work. I guess that is because they have these symbols. If you swich to \tt with cambria, only sup 1,2,3 work. So, the easiest solution will be to use a (maybe) virtual font that has these glyphs. Otherwise, using the active character trick is the easiest option. Aditya

Peter Münster

5:27 a.m.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Peter Münster wrote:

...

I need it for something like this:

\usemodule[vim] \definevimtyping[C][syntax=c] \starttext \startC for(expr₁; expr₂; expr₃) instruction \stopC \stoptext

Finally I've found a simple solution: \usemodule[vim] \definevimtyping[C][syntax=c] \defineactivecharacter ₁ {\low{\tx1}} \defineactivecharacter ₂ {\low{\tx2}} \defineactivecharacter ₃ {\low{\tx3}} \starttext \startC for(expr₁; expr₂; expr₃) instruction \stopC \stoptext Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

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participants (7)

Aditya Mahajan
Hans Hagen
Khaled Hosny
Matthijs Kooijman
Michail Vidiassov
Mojca Miklavec
Peter Münster