Hey list, I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is available here: www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt. In my environment file, I tried the following: \setuppublications[alternative=mla] That didn't appear to change anything, so I did what I normally do when I don't trust the output of ConTeXt. I changed the "mla" to a garbage string and it still compiled. So it must be either ignoring the style or I am doing it wrong. How can I use an MLA bibliography? -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Tue 10 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:
I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is available here:
www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html
Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt.
Unfortunately I don't think that either option is viable: ConTeXt doesn't come with an MLA style as far as I know, and you can't just drop in a BST because ConTeXt doesn't use BibTeX to typeset bibliographies (it just uses it as a preprocessor to convert .bib files into its own \startpublication ... \stoppublication format).
In my environment file, I tried the following:
\setuppublications[alternative=mla]
The available styles are listed in bibmod-doc.pdf and you can also find them in tex/texmf-context/tex/context/bib ; MLA isn't amongst them.
How can I use an MLA bibliography?
Unfortunately you'll probably have to define the style yourself using \setupcite and \setuppublicationlayout -- see bibmod-doc.pdf for details and the existing bibliography styles for guidance. Hope this helps, Pont
On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 19:57 +1200, Pontus Lurcock wrote:
On Tue 10 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:
I'd like to use an MLA style bibliography with MKIV. The style is available here:
www.reed.edu/cis/help/latex/bibtexstyles.html
Actually, it doesn't matter to me whether it is that one or any that supports MLA already that ships with ConTeXt.
Unfortunately I don't think that either option is viable: ConTeXt doesn't come with an MLA style as far as I know, and you can't just drop in a BST because ConTeXt doesn't use BibTeX to typeset bibliographies (it just uses it as a preprocessor to convert .bib files into its own \startpublication ... \stoppublication format).
Indeed, that is unfortunate. I am a little surprised because I would think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the sciences than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA style as the default. But surely someone must have found a way by now?
The available styles are listed in bibmod-doc.pdf and you can also find them in tex/texmf-context/tex/context/bib ; MLA isn't amongst them.
Agreed. But when I change it to anything other than apa, even to something allegedly supported, like num, I just see a [[error 2]] typeset.
Unfortunately you'll probably have to define the style yourself using \setupcite and \setuppublicationlayout -- see bibmod-doc.pdf for details and the existing bibliography styles for guidance.
I wonder if someone has already done that?
Hope this helps,
Very. I'm glad to find someone who knows about the bibliography module, since discussion and documentation seems to be scant. I have a few other bibliography related questions that you or Hans might be able to answer: (1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline. I'm thinking this is done with one of the setup commands, but not sure how to do this. My *tex is fairly weak. (2) I'd like to do the above, but also in some cases be able to specify a specific page number or anecdote to add to the footnote. (3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which brings me to the next question. (4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping in a \def. (5) Is there any way to dump a list of all the references, similar to \placepublications command that just lists references that contain a certain keyword or something? e.g. organized by a category? Take care Pont, -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Thu 12 Apr 2012, Kip Warner wrote:
Indeed, that is unfortunate. I am a little surprised because I would think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the sciences than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA style as the default.
Most of the scientific journals I've seen use something fairly close to APA style -- although it's worth noting that ConTeXt's ‘APA’ diverges from the official standard at various points.
But surely someone must have found a way by now?
I had a quick google before writing my previous mail, but only turned up http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100208.170849.f874f701.hu.html , which implies that at least as of two years ago MLA bibliographies were still an unsolved problem.
Agreed. But when I change it to anything other than apa, even to something allegedly supported, like num, I just see a [[error 2]] typeset.
Sounds like a bug, but never having used the other styles I don't really know.
Hope this helps,
Very. I'm glad to find someone who knows about the bibliography module, since discussion and documentation seems to be scant.
The aforementioned bibmod-doc.pdf file by Taco is the best documentation I've found, though it's a little out of date. But it's worth reading to get the idea of how ConTeXt interacts with BibTeX. As you say, discussion is a little scant too. I'm a user with a fairly limited understanding of the bibliography system, but I try to do what I can with bibliography questions if nobody else is answering. I'm afraid I don't have good answers to any of your questions, but as to URLs I can at least tell you what I do:
(3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which brings me to the next question.
(4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping in a \def.
Here's a sample entry from my PhD bibliography: % TODO is there a better way to cite a webpage? @manual{acton2011zplotit, author = {Acton, Gary}, title = {{ZPLOTIT} Software Users' Guide, version 2011-01}, year = {2011}, address = {\hyphenatedurl{http://paleomag.ucdavis.edu/software-Zplotit.html}}, note = {Retrieved 1 February 2011} } ... as the TODO shows, I don't consider this a perfect solution :-). With APA style, this produces an acceptable-looking entry, although semantically ‘address’ is probably the wrong key for the URL. \hyphenatedurl allows the url to be split nicely, but doesn't make it clickable; for that the tricks detailed at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/url should work. I'd guess that something like address = {\useURL[dummy][http://www.example.com]\from[dummy]} should make a clickable bibliography URL. Pont
On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 10:29 +1200, Pontus Lurcock wrote:
I had a quick google before writing my previous mail, but only turned up http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100208.170849.f874f701.hu.html , which implies that at least as of two years ago MLA bibliographies were still an unsolved problem.
That's too bad.
Sounds like a bug, but never having used the other styles I don't really know.
=(
The aforementioned bibmod-doc.pdf file by Taco is the best documentation I've found, though it's a little out of date. But it's worth reading to get the idea of how ConTeXt interacts with BibTeX.
I've read it top to bottom several times now =(
As you say, discussion is a little scant too. I'm a user with a fairly limited understanding of the bibliography system, but I try to do what I can with bibliography questions if nobody else is answering.
It's appreciated.
Here's a sample entry from my PhD bibliography:
% TODO is there a better way to cite a webpage? @manual{acton2011zplotit, author = {Acton, Gary}, title = {{ZPLOTIT} Software Users' Guide, version 2011-01}, year = {2011}, address = {\hyphenatedurl{http://paleomag.ucdavis.edu/software-Zplotit.html}}, note = {Retrieved 1 February 2011} }
... as the TODO shows, I don't consider this a perfect solution :-). With APA style, this produces an acceptable-looking entry, although semantically ‘address’ is probably the wrong key for the URL.
Perhaps, but you just gave me a great idea.
\hyphenatedurl allows the url to be split nicely, but doesn't make it clickable; for that the tricks detailed at http://wiki.contextgarden.net/url should work. I'd guess that something like
address = {\useURL[dummy][http://www.example.com]\from[dummy]}
should make a clickable bibliography URL.
See I totally forgot that it's basically copying the values of the tags directly into the bbl file which is already ConTeXt syntax, so all I have to do is replace the value of the title tag with the url. Here is what I did and it works marvellously: @Misc{asymptotic_notation, author = {Walker, Julienne}, month = {apr}, publisher = {Eternally Confuzzled}, title = {\href{http://www.eternallyconfuzzled.com/arts/jsw_art_bigo.aspx}{Asymptotic Notation}}, year = {2012} } I've defined \href as such: \def\href#1#2{\useURL[#2][{#2}][][{#1}]\goto{\url[#2]}[url(#1)]} It works great and this is what I see: "Walker, Julienne (2012a). Asympt% otic Notation. Eternally Confuzzled." But why the "% " string gets inserted in there I do not know? -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On 2012-04-12 14:32, Kip Warner wrote:
I am a little surprised because I would think that the people who use ConTeXt tend to be more from the sciences than the humanities, and so I wouldn't have expected APA style as the default.
APA is used in the humanities‽
(1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
You need to clarify two things here: 1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like “\footcite”? Have you tried something along the lines of this \let \goodoldcite \cite \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}} (untested)? 2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this requires that they contain the complete names of authors, editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints of the bib module: http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not really fulfilling. Philipp
I'm thinking this is done with one of the setup commands, but not sure how to do this. My *tex is fairly weak.
(2) I'd like to do the above, but also in some cases be able to specify a specific page number or anecdote to add to the footnote.
(3) I'd like any entry in the BibTeX database that has a url to have the title clickable such that the browser is invoked to that url. Which brings me to the next question.
(4) Since my database is specified in the .bib format, what is the preferred way of specifying a URL where there is one? I've seen a bunch of different suggestions ranging from using the 'note' tag to wrapping in a \def.
(5) Is there any way to dump a list of all the references, similar to \placepublications command that just lists references that contain a certain keyword or something? e.g. organized by a category?
Take care Pont,
-- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
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On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
(1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
You need to clarify two things here:
1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like “\footcite”?
Either by mapping \cite, or by using some other macro, yes.
Have you tried something along the lines of this
\let \goodoldcite \cite \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}
Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain "(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use \cite[reference] and that is what I see.
2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this requires that they contain the complete names of authors, editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints of the bib module: http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html
Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?
Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not really fulfilling.
=( -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
Hi Kip ... I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can not produce the ConTeXt. Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie, exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc. That is to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ... Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not so much (about a hundred). Good luck. Jaroslav Hajtmar Dne 14.4.2012 2:34, Kip Warner napsal(a):
On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
(1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
You need to clarify two things here:
1 You want to map the “\cite” macro to something like “\footcite”?
Either by mapping \cite, or by using some other macro, yes.
Have you tried something along the lines of this
\let \goodoldcite \cite \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}
Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain "(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use \cite[reference] and that is what I see.
2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this requires that they contain the complete names of authors, editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints of the bib module: http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html
Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?
Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not really fulfilling.
=(
___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 05:51, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hi Kip ... I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can not produce the ConTeXt. Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for typesetting bibliographies.
It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out, that's why I changed the way how article is printed): \setuppublicationlayout[article]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup} {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}% \insertvolume {, } {\insertissue{(}{)}{}% \insertpages{:}{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.} {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}% \insertnote{ }{.}{}% \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}% \insertcomment{}{.}{}% } % new fields and bibliography types: \newbibfield[conference] \newbibfield[cobissid] \setuppublicationlayout[conference]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{. }{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}% \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}% } \setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{% \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}% \inserturl{}{}{}% } Mojca
Thanks Mojca for comments. I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items (numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond its capabilities. I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but sometimes without professional advice the desired result is unattainable. When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be stressful. However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This conference is above standard and willing to help to laity. Jaroslav Hajtmar Dne 15.4.2012 20:09, Mojca Miklavec napsal(a):
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 05:51, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hi Kip ... I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can not produce the ConTeXt. Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for typesetting bibliographies.
It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out, that's why I changed the way how article is printed):
\setuppublicationlayout[article]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup} {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}% \insertvolume {, } {\insertissue{(}{)}{}% \insertpages{:}{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.} {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}% \insertnote{ }{.}{}% \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}% \insertcomment{}{.}{}% }
% new fields and bibliography types:
\newbibfield[conference] \newbibfield[cobissid]
\setuppublicationlayout[conference]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{. }{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}% \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}% }
\setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{% \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}% \inserturl{}{}{}% }
Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Jaroslav Hajtmar
Thanks Mojca for comments. I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items (numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond its capabilities. I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but sometimes without professional advice the desired result is unattainable. When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be stressful. However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This conference is above standard and willing to help to laity.
FWIW, I decided to just hand-write all the (MLA-style) citations in my masters thesis. In case you are not too far into your writing, an option would be to use pandoc which has CSL support. There are multiple MLA styles for CSL ( http://zotero.org/styles), though I have no idea if they are good for your purpose. This would be the equivalent of pre-rendering your citations as you translate from Markdown to Context. So by Context they should already be plain-text and require little or no special handling (you might need to add a command to make the bibliography at the end of 'overhanging').
On Mon, 2012-04-16 at 12:27 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
I agree that the output format can be set as needed (a lots of time of experimentation). But I needed a special sort of bibliographic items (numbering according to their occurrence in the text) and that I have unfortunately failed. For average amateurs are code modifications beyond its capabilities.
*nods*
I just want to say that ConTeXt is absolutely amazing tool, but sometimes without professional advice the desired result is unattainable. When time is pressed and help not comming, sometimes a lot can be stressful.
*nods*
However, to not complaint BUT it is the mere statement. This conference is above standard and willing to help to laity.
*nods* -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Sun, 2012-04-15 at 20:09 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
It requires some time and tedious work, but if you know exactly what you want, changing the layout should not be too difficult. Here are some fragments of code that I'm using (I wanted DOI to be printed out, that's why I changed the way how article is printed):
\setuppublicationlayout[article]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{\insertthekey{}{. }{}}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertjournal{\bgroup \it}{\egroup} {\insertcrossref{In }{}{}}% \insertvolume {, } {\insertissue{(}{)}{}% \insertpages{:}{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.} {\insertpages{, pages }{}{}% \insertpubyear{, }{}{}.}% \insertnote{ }{.}{}% \insertdoi{ doi:}{.}{}% \insertcomment{}{.}{}% }
% new fields and bibliography types:
\newbibfield[conference] \newbibfield[cobissid]
\setuppublicationlayout[conference]{% \insertartauthors{}{\unskip. }{}% \insertarttitle{\bgroup }{\egroup. }{}% \insertconference{\bgroup \it}{\egroup\insertday{, }{. }{}\insertmonth{}{\ }{}\insertpubyear{}{}{}. }{}% \insertcobissid{[COBISS.SI-ID\ }{]}{}% }
\setuppublicationlayout[webpage]{% \inserttitle{\bgroup\it }{\egroup. }{}% \inserturl{}{}{}% }
This is great Mojca. If there is a url field in the bibliography database present for a given entry, how would one have the title interactive to the url? I struggled with that and eventually gave up after a few hours of trying. -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 01:47, Kip Warner wrote:
If there is a url field in the bibliography database present for a given entry, how would one have the title interactive to the url?
I didn't try to answer your question directly, but the following example comes from one of my documents (please don't ask me how I got it working since I don't remember, but it was probably with Taco's intervention and by cloning definitions of \insertbiburl). I turns a number into well-defined URL and displays just the number with a link to that URL. \newbibfield[cobissid] \unprotect \def\bibinsertcobissid#1#2#3% {{\bibdoifelse{\@@pb@cobissid}% {\edef\ascii{\@EA\detokenize\@EA{\@@pb@cobissid}}% #1\expanded{\gotoCOBISS{\@@pb@thekey}{\ascii}}#2}{#3}}} \protect % http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=DISPLAY&base=cobib&rid=1063780&lani=EN % http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=SEARCH&base=COBIB&select=BN=0521867444&lani=en \def\gotoCOBISS#1#2% {\ifbibinteractionelse {\useURL[bibfoo#1][http://www.cobiss.si/scripts/cobiss?command=DISPLAY&base=cobib&rid=#2]% \goto{#2}[url(bibfoo#1)]}% {#2}} and then my book layout uses \insertcobissid{ {\sc cobiss.si-id}: \bgroup}{\egroup.}{}% followed by an example: \startpublication [k=book:willock2009, t=book, a=Willock, y=2009, s=, u=] \title{Molecular symmetry} \author[]{David J}[D.~J.]{}{Willock} \pubyear{2009} \pubname{J. Wiley \& Sons} \city{Chichester} \isbn{978-0-470-85348-1} \cobissid{30303749} \stoppublication Maybe that (with explanation) deserves an entry on the wiki, but you can have a nice exercise. If this doesn't help you, I'll take a look tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Mojca
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:12 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
Maybe that (with explanation) deserves an entry on the wiki, but you can have a nice exercise. If this doesn't help you, I'll take a look tomorrow or day after tomorrow.
Thanks a lot Mojca. Although I'm not confident in my ConTeXt'ing to adapt that for URL use, it's definitely pleasing to know that it is probably possible to do. -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 05:51 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hi Kip ... I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can not produce the ConTeXt.
Hey Jaroslav. No surprise =(
Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie, exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc.
I'm very close to doing something similar. I wish the wiki had been more clear that ConTeXt's bibliography module is not really ready for professional use.
That is to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ... Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not so much (about a hundred).
Thanks for your feedback Jaroslav. I'm sure you'll have a suggestion or two after you see the mess I am having to deal with in the book I am working on. =) -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
Hello Kip. If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution ;-) - only for your inspiration your solution. It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly required by supervisor of thesis. Here is link to my files: http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRk... (There is also a ZIP package) .. with greetings Jaroslav Hajtmar Dne 17.4.2012 0:47, Kip Warner napsal(a):
On Sat, 2012-04-14 at 05:51 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hi Kip ... I had a similar problem with a bibliography. Supervisor of thesis wants to have a bibliography in a specific format (sorted AMS like) in which it can not produce the ConTeXt.
Hey Jaroslav. No surprise =(
Maybe this is just because I am a bit stupid and I could not correct the bibliography in ConTeXt and run something similar to what I wanted none of the conference met, so no one could help me. I finally after many hours of experiments on all bibliography resigned and I made myself a simple tool for typesetting bibliographies. But it is only a virtue of necessity and bibliography entries I we entered all on the line (ie, exactly how it should look in the list of bibliography), ie. I do that without specifying a style author = someone, title = foo, etc.
I'm very close to doing something similar. I wish the wiki had been more clear that ConTeXt's bibliography module is not really ready for professional use.
That is to say that if you do not need to have the bibliography in the format in which we would expect from BibTeX, so I suggest to do it my way (I mean the format of bibliographic entries in text, sorting items, etc..) All of this can be done in Lua. In printed form, nobody will know that this is actually done "manually" without "BibTeX" ... Originally I thought that I can not do, but eventually everything turned out well. It is true that the bibliographic citations in the work is not so much (about a hundred).
Thanks for your feedback Jaroslav. I'm sure you'll have a suggestion or two after you see the mess I am having to deal with in the book I am working on. =)
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:52 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hello Kip. If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution ;-) - only for your inspiration your solution. It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly required by supervisor of thesis.
Here is link to my files: http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRk... (There is also a ZIP package) ..
with greetings Jaroslav Hajtmar
Thanks a lot Jaroslav. I'll take a look at it. -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 02:52 +0200, Jaroslav Hajtmar wrote:
Hello Kip. If you're interested, then I send you my "simple" AMS sorted solution ;-) - only for your inspiration your solution. It's certainly not a step in the right direction, but rather an emergency solution that helped me achieve a result which was strictly required by supervisor of thesis.
Here is link to my files: http://public.hajtmar.com/?cesta=JRsVFQdsBhwIWyAdFwQROwZWEh0hHhAfEzETCRgNcRk... (There is also a ZIP package) ..
with greetings Jaroslav Hajtmar
Wow Jaroslav, that looks pretty complex. It does work, but my main issue right now isn't so much with sorting as it is just getting citations to typeset properly. I do thank you for providing the zip though. These are the issues I am having lately: Using \cite[data][<key>] depicts a full citation which is what I'd like, but I just need it as a footnote. There is probably a way to do this by having \cite do this automatically, otherwise I would have to wrap each call to it using \footnote. I'd like data to be the default format. I tried \setuppublications[alternative=data], but now all I see is an [[error 2]] typeset in the document. Another thing too is it would still be great if any time there was a 'url' tag present in the BibTeX database, automatically the 'title' is typeset interactive such that clicking it invokes the url. I think that is pretty elegant as an ideal situation, but it sounds difficult to implement. -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
Hi Kip, On 2012-04-13 17:34, Kip Warner wrote:
On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 06:51 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
(1) I'd like it such that each time I use \cite, the full citation and not just "(Some One, 1967)" appears in a footnote, rather than inline.
Have you tried something along the lines of this
\let \goodoldcite \cite \unexpanded\def\cite#1{\footnote{\goodoldcite{#1}}}
Yes, it doesn't work though. All I see are footnotes that contain "(Xxxxxxxxxx, 0000)". But maybe I am not using it properly. I just use \cite[reference] and that is what I see.
Sorry, my bad. I forgot that the builtin “\cite” macro takes bracketed args, not braced ... So, the listing below is tested, make sure you have the file context/bib/sample.bib in $PWD: ········································································ \setupbibtex[ database=sample, sort=author, ] \setuppublications[ alternative=apa, ] \glet\originalcite\cite \let\cite\relax \unprotect \def\cite{\dodoubleempty\do_cite} \def\do_cite[#1][#2]{% %%% Wraps citations into footnotes. \iffirstargument \startfootnote \ifsecondargument \originalcite[#1][#2]% \else \originalcite[#1]% \fi \stopfootnote \fi% } \protect \starttext \section{nova methodos referendi} \input knuth\cite[hh2010] \stoptext \endinput ········································································
2 You want “\cite” to retrieve full citations? Assuming this requires that they contain the complete names of authors, editors and stuff, you might be out of luck. Last time I checked this was impossible to realize within the constraints of the bib module: http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100212.073108.f4699471.en.html
Ouch. So basically no footnote citations like in most of the books I read. You'd think there would just be a \cite[everything] option?
You get footnote citations (see above). The problem is how you (or your bib style, for that matter) define *full citation*. If it’s ok to have the crippled version like “Leibniz, G. W.” instead of “Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm” or (as I needed it) without inversion “Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz”, it might suffice to use “\cite[alternative=data][my_bib_key]”.
Hth. Anyways, you’re right, the native Context bib support is not really fulfilling.
=(
I’ve been following this thread and it would appear that most people who are in some way working with citations / bibliographies are avoiding the built-in facilities. I confess I’m no exception; writing my own bib support was in fact a prerequisite that made Context usable for me in the first place. It handles these full citations, inverted author or not, but it’s by no means a general solution. If you’re really stuck with your citation issues I can mail you the repo off-list, but you will have to know your way around (occasionally badly written) Lua code in order to adapt it in any way. On the other hand, there’s been an announcement by Paul Isambert some time ago that his *Librarian* package cooperates with Context in some way:
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100405.024343.6e4aa50d.en.html From the documentation it looks pretty powerful. Have never used it myself, though.
Sorry for the delay, exams and stuff ... Philipp -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments
On Wed, 2012-04-18 at 12:27 +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
Sorry, my bad. I forgot that the builtin “\cite” macro takes bracketed args, not braced ... So, the listing below is tested, make sure you have the file context/bib/sample.bib in $PWD:
········································································ \setupbibtex[ database=sample, sort=author, ]
\setuppublications[ alternative=apa, ]
\glet\originalcite\cite \let\cite\relax
\unprotect
\def\cite{\dodoubleempty\do_cite}
\def\do_cite[#1][#2]{% %%% Wraps citations into footnotes. \iffirstargument \startfootnote \ifsecondargument \originalcite[#1][#2]% \else \originalcite[#1]% \fi \stopfootnote \fi% }
\protect
\starttext
\section{nova methodos referendi} \input knuth\cite[hh2010]
\stoptext \endinput
Thanks a lot Philipp. That's pretty comprehensive.
You get footnote citations (see above). The problem is how you (or your bib style, for that matter) define *full citation*. If it’s ok to have the crippled version like “Leibniz, G. W.” instead of “Leibniz, Gottfried Wilhelm” or (as I needed it) without inversion “Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz”, it might suffice to use “\cite[alternative=data][my_bib_key]”.
Yes, I've been using data for now. I'm just struggling to figure out how to stylize it properly.
I’ve been following this thread and it would appear that most people who are in some way working with citations / bibliographies are avoiding the built-in facilities.
I think the problem is that a lot of us jumped into ConTeXt's bibliography support without realizing that it is not really mature enough to be usable for professional use yet. It takes a lot of work.
I confess I’m no exception; writing my own bib support was in fact a prerequisite that made Context usable for me in the first place. It handles these full citations, inverted author or not, but it’s by no means a general solution. If you’re really stuck with your citation issues I can mail you the repo off-list, but you will have to know your way around (occasionally badly written) Lua code in order to adapt it in any way.
Thanks a lot for the generous offer, but sadly I probably wouldn't know what to do with it. Unlike a lot of people on this list, my first exposure to digital typesetting came with ConTeXt which would make such a thing very painful. On top of that, I'd have to be more comfortable with Lua.
On the other hand, there’s been an announcement by Paul Isambert some time ago that his *Librarian* package cooperates with Context in some way:
http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20100405.024343.6e4aa50d.en.html From the documentation it looks pretty powerful. Have never used it myself, though.
Sorry for the delay, exams and stuff ... Philipp
No problem Philipp. Thanks for your help. -- Kip Warner -- Software Engineer OpenPGP encrypted/signed mail preferred http://www.thevertigo.com
participants (6)
-
Jaroslav Hajtmar -
John Haltiwanger -
Kip Warner -
Mojca Miklavec -
Philipp Gesang -
Pontus Lurcock