Hi, as there are some on this list working/playing with xetex/context: Where do I go when I experience differences between context/pdftext and context/xetex? For example with context/xetex I get ... ! Undefined control sequence. \stopframedtext ->\dostopframedtext ... and I do get "SS" instead of eszett ("ß") with the following: \usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][ec] \mainlanguage[de] \enableregime[utf] \setupbodyfont[times,9pt] Hello Thermes! 1234567890 üööäß Whom to tell this? Steffen P.S. Besides these details it is amazing how smooth ConTeXt files run with XeTeX!!
On 4/8/07, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
Hi,
as there are some on this list working/playing with xetex/context: Where do I go when I experience differences between context/pdftext and context/xetex?
What do you mean?
For example with context/xetex I get ...
! Undefined control sequence. \stopframedtext ->\dostopframedtext
Which version of ConTeXt? It works OK here with 2007.03.22, but I need to try the new beta. In principle this should not happen, it's probably a bug or some other local problem.
... and I do get "SS" instead of eszett ("ß") with the following:
Interesting effect ... (as if the encoding was unknown)
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][ec]
This should be \usetypescript[times][uc] but in principle it shouldn't work without additional definitions in typescript files. See below.
\mainlanguage[de] \enableregime[utf] \setupbodyfont[times,9pt]
Or, to prevent from an additional source of problems (overloading times properly): \definetypeface[times][rm][serif][termes][default][encoding=uc] \setupbodyfont[times,9pt]
Hello Thermes! 1234567890 üööäß
Whom to tell this?
Mailing list is the perfect place. OK, so here are some additional definitions (which should probably go to type-gyre.tex one day): A complete list of synonyms: \definetypescriptprefix [n:adventor] [TeXGyreAdventor] % gothic URW Gothic L \definetypescriptprefix [n:bonum] [TeXGyreBonum] % bookman URW Bookman L \definetypescriptprefix [n:chorus] [TeXGyreChorus] % chancery URW Chancery L \definetypescriptprefix [n:cursor] [TeXGyreCursor] % curier Nimbus Mono L \definetypescriptprefix [n:heros] [TeXGyreHeros] % helvetica Nimbus Sans L \definetypescriptprefix [n:pagella] [TeXGyrePagella] % palatino URW Palladio L \definetypescriptprefix [n:schola] [TeXGyreSchola] % schoolbook Century Schoolbook L \definetypescriptprefix [n:termes] [TeXGyreTermes] % times Nimbus Roman No9 L \definetypescriptprefix [f:adventor] [ag] \definetypescriptprefix [f:bonum] [bk] \definetypescriptprefix [f:chorus] [zc] \definetypescriptprefix [f:cursor] [cr] \definetypescriptprefix [f:heros] [hv] \definetypescriptprefix [f:pagella] [pl] \definetypescriptprefix [f:schola] [cs] \definetypescriptprefix [f:termes] [tm] Then you need definitions for uc encoding: \starttypescript [serif] [adventor,bonum,heros,pagella,schola,termes] [uc] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Regular] [file:texgyre\typescripttwo-regular] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Italic] [file:texgyre\typescripttwo-italic] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Bold] [file:texgyre\typescripttwo-bold] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldItalic] [file:texgyre\typescripttwo-bolditalic] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Caps] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Regular] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-ItalicCaps] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Italic] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldCaps] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Bold] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldItalicCaps] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldItalic] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Slanted] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-Italic] \definefontsynonym [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldSlanted] [\typescriptprefix{n:\typescripttwo}-BoldItalic] \stoptypescript % definitions for SmallCaps are wrong, since they're a feature in OT fonts and that is a bit broken (or at least not stable enough) at the moment. And you also need the following: % ec,texnansi,cs,el,qx,rm,t5,t2a,t2b,t2c,l7x \starttypescript [serif] [times] [uc] \definefontsynonym [Times-Roman] [TeXGyreTermes-Regular] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [Times-Italic] [TeXGyreTermes-Italic] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [Times-Bold] [TeXGyreTermes-Bold] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [Times-BoldItalic] [TeXGyreTermes-BoldItalic] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [Times-Caps] [TeXGyreTermes-Caps] [encoding=\typescriptthree] \definefontsynonym [Times-Slanted] [Times-Italic] \definefontsynonym [Times-BoldSlanted] [Times-BoldItalic] \stoptypescript Something strange is happening though. If you load these definitions with XeTeX, it works OK. If one loads them with pdfTeX, it doesn't work, since TeXGyreTermes-Regular isn't defined. When I think a bit, I understand why it's not defined (because it's part of "termes" family, not part of "times" family), but I don't understand why these definitions work in XeTeX then. Of course one could also say \definefontsynonym [Times-Roman] [file:texgyretermes-regular] [encoding=uc] but there should be a better way than to define the same font twice. Is there any nice way to make "times" aware of "TeXGyreTermes-*" font names? At the beginning I had problems with XeTeX as well since Times resolved to 'Times Roman:mapping=tex-text', which resolved to the name 'mapping=tex-text' (a side effect of recent that should probably be fixed somehow in the near future), but that problem disappeared later. I had to temporary fix this (leftovers before TeXGyre family managed to overload everything perhaps?): \starttypescript[serif][times][uc] \definefontsynonym[Times-Roman] [Times Roman] [encoding=uc] \definefontsynonym[Times-Italic] [Times Italic] [encoding=uc] \definefontsynonym[Times-Bold] [Times Bold] [encoding=uc] \definefontsynonym[Times-BoldItalic][Times Bold Italic][encoding=uc] \stoptypescript Mojca
Moica, thanks for your detailed support! On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:27:47 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
Where do I go when I experience differences between context/pdftext and context/xetex?
What do you mean?
these:
For example with context/xetex I get ...
! Undefined control sequence. \stopframedtext ->\dostopframedtext
...
... and I do get "SS" instead of eszett ("ß") with the following:
Interesting effect ... (as if the encoding was unknown)
I have to admit that it I never understood which encoding to use when.... if, for example, I just write english/german/french then I could also use texnansi, this works perfect : \usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][texnansi] \mainlanguage[de] \enableregime[utf] \setupbodyfont[times,9pt]
Which version of ConTeXt? It works OK here with 2007.03.22, but I need to try the new beta. In principle this should not happen, it's probably a bug or some other local problem.
it is version 2007.01.12 (didn't you recommend to stay with the january version?)
Whom to tell this?
Mailing list is the perfect place.
I was wondering whether the xetex or the context list is better as it is a mixed xetex/context-topic and for Adam is in "paternity leave" I had no idea on which list someone continues.
At the beginning I had problems with XeTeX as well since Times resolved to 'Times Roman:mapping=tex-text', which resolved to the name 'mapping=tex-text' (a side effect of recent that should probably be fixed somehow in the near future), but that problem disappeared later. I had to temporary fix this (leftovers before TeXGyre family managed to overload everything perhaps?):
right, "Times Roman:mapping=tex-text": This also happened to me when using ... \usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][uc] ... that's why I used ... \usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][ec] ... but probably I should have used "texnansi" (see above). Steffen
On 4/11/07, Steffen Wolfrum
Moica, thanks for your detailed support!
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:27:47 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
Where do I go when I experience differences between context/pdftext and context/xetex?
What do you mean?
these:
For example with context/xetex I get ...
! Undefined control sequence. \stopframedtext ->\dostopframedtext
...
... and I do get "SS" instead of eszett ("ß") with the following:
Interesting effect ... (as if the encoding was unknown)
I have to admit that it I never understood which encoding to use when....
Me neither. Until I figured out that some of my letters were missing in texnansi. texnansi & ec are 8-bit encodings used by "old" TeX (pdfTeX) and only support 256 different characters. (you need to use a different encodings for greek, cyrillic, vietnamese, ...) The main problem is that XeTeX is not really backward compatible in that respect: old fonts don't work since XeTeX thinks that the glyphs are unicode-encoded, but they're in ec/texnansi/whatever other encoding. If it nevertheless works, that is by a pure coincidence (when you only need English letters ...). In case that you would want to get the old fonts working with XeTeX, you need to ask Jonathan. He said that it might be implemented, but it's not really high on the priority list (it's just a problem during transition state when 8'bit fonts still dominate in the TeX world). LuaTeX will probably support those old encodings, but you would want to use "uc" (unicode) encoding for both engines, otherwise it makes no sense to use XeTeX instead of pdfTeX at all.
if, for example, I just write english/german/french then I could also use texnansi, this works perfect :
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][texnansi] \mainlanguage[de] \enableregime[utf]
\setupbodyfont[times,9pt]
That's because texnansi is based on "ansi" in the upper half of the table and unicode is "by accident" the same in that area. So it's really "coincedence" that it works. You should not use it that way unless you have no better choice.
Which version of ConTeXt? It works OK here with 2007.03.22, but I need to try the new beta. In principle this should not happen, it's probably a bug or some other local problem.
it is version 2007.01.12 (didn't you recommend to stay with the january version?)
It depends on what you want to do. The current version is indeed not stable in that respect.
Whom to tell this?
Mailing list is the perfect place.
I was wondering whether the xetex or the context list is better as it is a mixed xetex/context-topic and for Adam is in "paternity leave" I had no idea on which list someone continues.
All of your questions mentioned here belong to the ConTeXt mailing list (XeTeX mailing list is mostly for XeLaTeX and low-level XeTeX discussions) since it's really about the ConTeXt user-interface. The only thing you could ask for on the XeTeX list is the question of supporting ec/texnansi-encoded fonts (I prefer to wait for luaTeX than to bother about those "soon-to-become-obsolete" additions).
At the beginning I had problems with XeTeX as well since Times resolved to 'Times Roman:mapping=tex-text', which resolved to the name 'mapping=tex-text' (a side effect of recent that should probably be fixed somehow in the near future), but that problem disappeared later. I had to temporary fix this (leftovers before TeXGyre family managed to overload everything perhaps?):
right, "Times Roman:mapping=tex-text": This also happened to me when using ...
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][uc]
... that's why I used ...
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][ec]
... but probably I should have used "texnansi" (see above).
You should try to get "uc" working if possible, but you need to add some definitions from my previous mail. If you want to stick with texnansi, you should better use pdfTeX. Mojca
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
LuaTeX will probably support those old encodings, but you would want to use "uc" (unicode) encoding for both engines, otherwise it makes no sense to use XeTeX instead of pdfTeX at all.
luatex itself has still the pdftex machinery around, so you can use map files to handle things when you use for instance type one fonts. ttf and otf are supported as wide fonts, but of course one needs to make sure that the unicode to glyph mapping is ok in context mkiv i will intercept the encoding-prefixed fonts (texnansi-mojca-regular) so this is transparent for users by using some lua glue code but mainly because i read afm files instead of tfm files (so, texnansi-mojca will in fact use mojca.afm); non prefixed names will use the tfm file (this is pretty safe because the texnansi-* names were only there when proper afm files are also there; i mainly provide this features for existing typescripts) in general, encodings are not something to worry about not even uc as encoding is needed in mkiv
All of your questions mentioned here belong to the ConTeXt mailing list (XeTeX mailing list is mostly for XeLaTeX and low-level XeTeX discussions) since it's really about the ConTeXt user-interface. The only thing you could ask for on the XeTeX list is the question of supporting ec/texnansi-encoded fonts (I prefer to wait for luaTeX than to bother about those "soon-to-become-obsolete" additions).
indeed, there is no need to mess up xetex with obsolete encoding stuff; luatex will still have much pdftex code around so there the penalty is less, but eventually users have to move on Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:22:39 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
luatex itself has still the pdftex machinery around, so you can use map files to handle things when you use for instance type one fonts.
Does this mean for document with different fonts
I will be able to use my good old mapfiles like
pads8r AGaramond-Semibold "TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont" <8r.enc
Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:22:39 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
luatex itself has still the pdftex machinery around, so you can use map files to handle things when you use for instance type one fonts.
Does this mean for document with different fonts I will be able to use my good old mapfiles like
pads8r AGaramond-Semibold "TeXBase1Encoding ReEncodeFont" <8r.enc
and also an opentype fonts like
DecoTypeNaskh.ttf
together in one ConTeXt document, typeset with luatex?
indeed - pads8r is a rather dump tfm file, so that goes through the normal tex machinery - DecoTypeNaskh.ttf is an open type font and can be used directly \definefont[whatever][DecoTypeNaskh] should be enough Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:44:18 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
You should try to get "uc" working if possible, but you need to add some definitions from my previous mail. If you want to stick with texnansi, you should better use pdfTeX.
I have a document with German as the main language, defined ... \usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][texnansi] \mainlanguage[de] \setupbodyfont[times,10pt] ... and inserted Arabic quotes in Arabic AlBayan.ttf, defined ... \font\geeza="AlBayan" at 10pt That's why it's typeset with XeTeX. But nevertheless texnansi for TeXGyreTermes seems to be fine (at least for now). Thank you, Steffen
Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:44:18 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
You should try to get "uc" working if possible, but you need to add some definitions from my previous mail. If you want to stick with texnansi, you should better use pdfTeX.
I have a document with German as the main language, defined ...
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][texnansi] \mainlanguage[de] \setupbodyfont[times,10pt]
.... and inserted Arabic quotes in Arabic AlBayan.ttf, defined ...
\font\geeza="AlBayan" at 10pt
That's why it's typeset with XeTeX. But nevertheless texnansi for TeXGyreTermes seems to be fine (at least for now).
technically one can define a virtual font which uses TeXGyreTermes as base, but has additional glyphs taken from AlBayan; I do have experimental code for that but have to cook up an interface (not that hard, i only need time and motivation); that way you dont't need to switch to geeza in between \ctxlua { fonts.define.methods.install("weird", { { "include-method", "base" } , { "copy-char" , "lmroman10-regular" , 65, 66 } , { "copy-range" , "lmsans10-regular" , 0x0100, 0x01FF } , { "copy-range" , "lmtypewriter10-regular", 0x0200, 0xFF00 } , { "fallback-range", "lmtypewriter10-regular", 0x0000, 0x0200 } }) } \starttext \startTEXpage \font\test={myfont@weird} \test \eacute \rcaron \adoublegrave \char"0200 AB\char65\char65 \stopTEXpage Along these lines ... but then properly interfaced -) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:46:51 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote:
Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:44:18 +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
You should try to get "uc" working if possible, but you need to add some definitions from my previous mail. If you want to stick with texnansi, you should better use pdfTeX.
I have a document with German as the main language, defined ...
\usetypescriptfile[type-gyr] \usetypescript[times][texnansi] \mainlanguage[de] \setupbodyfont[times,10pt]
.... and inserted Arabic quotes in Arabic AlBayan.ttf, defined ...
\font\geeza="AlBayan" at 10pt
That's why it's typeset with XeTeX. But nevertheless texnansi for TeXGyreTermes seems to be fine (at least for now).
technically one can define a virtual font which uses TeXGyreTermes as base, but has additional glyphs taken from AlBayan; I do have experimental code for that but have to cook up an interface (not that hard, i only need time and motivation) ...
No no, stop!!! Don't do it the hard way. ConTeXt has already such handy ways to fulfill my needs. Switching between the two fonts is perfectly fine for me. Thank you, Steffen.
participants (3)
-
Hans Hagen -
Mojca Miklavec -
Steffen Wolfrum