George N. White III ha scritto:

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Manuel P. wrote:

...

Hi everyone! This is my first post here.

I've a limited (but sufficient) experience with LaTeX (I've written several work-related documents with it) and now I have to write my undergraduate thesis (the deadline is mid-january 2010). I've been fairy impressed by a book typesetted with ConTeXt, so I used it for some documents and liked the idea and the configurability. The possibility of having a unique and personalized look-and-feel for every document is very appealing to me, and I have already began to assemble a style for the thesis.

However, I've a very limited experience with it and I wonder: is ConTeXt the right choice in my circumstances? Can it be used without a degree in typography? I can't write half thesis and then stumble on some obscure (to me) typesetting problem, things have to be smooth and I need to concentrate on content (but I still find desiderable a good unique look). When I have a problem I try my best to resolve it by myself, but given the limited time I can't learn and investigate everything, so if I'll write my thesis in ConTeXt in some (desperate) cases I'll need your help.

What do you think?

I was the first person at my institution to use a computer to "type" my thesis (with a daisywheel printer that was essentially a modified typewriter) in the days before TeX was accessible to students.

When you follow an existing process you benefit from the efforts of those who have gone before, but when you do things in a new way you may find that your efforts get more rigorous scrutiny. I have heard of cases where some of the institution's rules for thesis formats are not enforced "because it is too hard to do that using MS Word", but the same exceptions are not granted to TeX users.

ConTeXt has been used, but different institutions have different rules and expectations. At many institutions there is already a LaTeX thesis style "ready to go", but I have heard of problems when these were used outside science, e.g, because the science people don't use footnotes the same way as for other fields.

FInd out if LaTeX is used at your institution (even if you choose ConTeXt, the LaTeX style can serve to document fonts and other details. Find out who enforces the institution's standards and discuss your plans with them -- they may be able to help you identify particular trouble spots in advance so you can get more specific help/advice while there is time to change plans.

I've already asked and there isn't any policy about the format. Some students write their thesis with LaTeX, others with openoffice, there isn't any style enforcement policy as far as I know. My requirements are quite easy: something unobtrusive that enable me to focus on the content and obtain a nice and consistent look with a virtually flat leaning curve (I don't mind a bit of learning, but I can't spend days on that). Some pictures, some tables, mainly text. Footnotes, bibliography, quotes and easy personalization of footers and headers. Some quick examples: - How can I make a double-face document (right page, left page)? - How can I separate the footer from the rest of the page with something like an \hairline? - There is an equivalent for ConTeXt of LaTeX's lastpage? I want a footer like this: <page>/

On Sat, Dec 19 2009, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

In my experience, the trouble is not creating a style that meets your university's requirement: that is easy both in LaTeX (once you know the right packages) or ConTeXt. The difficulty is understanding your universities requirement which, in most cases, is ambiguous and incomplete.

Hello, The other trouble can be, that the requirements are simply ugly and don't even respect basic typographic rules (line lengths of more than 80 characters for example). I've typeset three PhD thesis and one master thesis, and I've never bothered with the "requirements" of the universities. The result was, that some members of the juries paid compliments on the look of the dissertations ("like a book"). I'm not an expert in typography, but sometimes the people inventing those rules at universities are even less expert... :( The one, that I like best (balanced columns): http://pmrb.free.fr/tmp/main.pdf (I'm sorry, I've typeset it before my LaTeX->ConTeXt conversion... ;) Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/

Hi, the following used to work: \definecharacterkerning[negative] \setupcharacterkerning[negative][factor=-0.125] \starttext \input davis \blank {\setcharacterkerning[extrakerning]\input davis\relax} \blank {\setcharacterkerning[negative]\input davis\relax} \stoptext Is it obsolete? Is there an alternative? Greetings Andreas

Am 21.12.2009 um 13:40 schrieb Hans Hagen:

Andreas Harder wrote:

...

Hi, the following used to work: \definecharacterkerning[negative] \setupcharacterkerning[negative][factor=-0.125] \starttext \input davis \blank {\setcharacterkerning[extrakerning]\input davis\relax} \blank {\setcharacterkerning[negative]\input davis\relax} \stoptext Is it obsolete? Is there an alternative?

patch this:

\def\setcharacterkerning {\ctxlua{kerns.enable()}% \gdef\setcharacterkerning[##1]% {\dosetattribute{kern}{\csname\??ck:##1\endcsname}}% \setcharacterkerning}

Thank you Hans. I’ve changed it in typo-krn.mkiv but unfortunately the result is still the same. Greetings, Andreas

Am 21.12.2009 um 16:55 schrieb Hans Hagen:

Andreas Harder wrote:

...

Am 21.12.2009 um 13:40 schrieb Hans Hagen:

...

...

Hi, the following used to work: \definecharacterkerning[negative] \setupcharacterkerning[negative][factor=-0.125] \starttext \input davis \blank {\setcharacterkerning[extrakerning]\input davis\relax} \blank {\setcharacterkerning[negative]\input davis\relax} \stoptext Is it obsolete? Is there an alternative?

Andreas Harder wrote: patch this:

\def\setcharacterkerning {\ctxlua{kerns.enable()}% \gdef\setcharacterkerning[##1]% {\dosetattribute{kern}{\csname\??ck:##1\endcsname}}% \setcharacterkerning} Thank you Hans. I’ve changed it in typo-krn.mkiv but unfortunately the result is still the same.

did you remake the format?

Is this necessary? I did now, but no change … Andreas

Am 21.12.2009 um 17:34 schrieb Hans Hagen:

Andreas Harder wrote:

...

Am 21.12.2009 um 16:55 schrieb Hans Hagen:

...

Andreas Harder wrote:

...

Am 21.12.2009 um 13:40 schrieb Hans Hagen:

...

...

Hi, the following used to work: \definecharacterkerning[negative] \setupcharacterkerning[negative][factor=-0.125] \starttext \input davis \blank {\setcharacterkerning[extrakerning]\input davis\relax} \blank {\setcharacterkerning[negative]\input davis\relax} \stoptext Is it obsolete? Is there an alternative?

Andreas Harder wrote: patch this:

\def\setcharacterkerning {\ctxlua{kerns.enable()}% \gdef\setcharacterkerning[##1]% {\dosetattribute{kern}{\csname\??ck:##1\endcsname}}% \setcharacterkerning} Thank you Hans. I’ve changed it in typo-krn.mkiv but unfortunately the result is still the same. did you remake the format? Is this necessary? I did now, but no change …

then you have to wait till the next beta …

Okay, thanks! It’s not urgent. May I ask for the ligatures problem (my other post). Can you provide a patch or do I have to wait till the next beta? Greetings, Andreas

Aditya Mahajan ha scritto:

...

Some quick examples: - How can I make a double-face document (right page, left page)?

\setuppagenumbering[alternative=doublesided]

...

- How can I separate the footer from the rest of the page with something like an \hairline?

\setupbackgrounds[footer][text][topframe=on]

...

- There is an equivalent for ConTeXt of LaTeX's lastpage? I want a footer like this: <page>/

\lastpage :)

\setupfootertexts[Page \pagenumber\ of \lastpage]

Aditya Wow, thank you Aditya.

Now it seems to me that I can use ConTeXt without much worries. I've skimmed a bit of cont-enp.pdf and read that Hans suggest to adjust the style only after writing the content to obtain a good separation content/presentation. I like the idea.

Mojca Miklavec ha scritto:

On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 22:10, Manuel P. wrote:

...

My requirements are quite easy: something unobtrusive that enable me to focus on the content and obtain a nice and consistent look with a virtually flat leaning curve (I don't mind a bit of learning, but I can't spend days on that). Some pictures, some tables, mainly text. Footnotes, bibliography, quotes and easy personalization of footers and headers.

Despite the fact that you can get your questions answered here, it still makes sense to read (or at least skim through) the two manuals (CONTEXT, an excursion and cont-eni.pdf from http://www.pragma-ade.com/overview.htm).

Mojca

I've skimmed through the excursion, cont-enp.pdf and contextgarden but I didn't managed to find \lastpage or \setupbackgrounds. I was trying to decide between latex ot context and since I need to start writing I couldn't spend too much time on learning a tool that could have been not usable in my situation. I think I'll use context. Thank you Mojca. Manuel

John Haltiwanger ha scritto:

ConTeXt is great because there is only one system to learn. As was already mentioned, it is much more consistent than LaTeX.

One tip is to make sure you are using the electronic version, rather than the print version, of the ConTeXt manual. Any time you want to accomplish something, just click index, then click on the page that talks about the topic you are looking for. Incredible time saver. Good point John, thank you. I'll use the electronic version.

In addition to the advantages others have mentioned, I have found that typesetting tables is much easier in Context. I use Natural Tables for the purpose. It is easy and intuitive to use. I really like the way it is designed. On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 2:15 PM, luigi scarso wrote:

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Manuel P. wrote:

...

John Haltiwanger ha scritto:

...

ConTeXt is great because there is only one system to learn. As was already mentioned, it is much more consistent than LaTeX.

And if you want something extreme http://www.pragma-ade.com/general/manuals/columns.pdf

-- luigi ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive  : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki     : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Hi its me again. If I set mode=node then some ligatures are ignored. \definefontfeature[default][default][mode=node] \usetypescript[palatino] \setupbodyfont[palatino] \startbuffer Begriff, Begriffsbestimmung, Integrationsbegriff, Öffentlichkeit, Eröffnung, erhoffte, die Betroffenen, getroffenen, ergriffen, auffällig, trifft, hoffen, Aufforderung, Begrifflichkeit. Häufig, Wohlbefinden, offiziell, Identifikation, signifikant, modifiziert, qualifiziert, offiziell. Pflicht, dörflich, höflich, fliegen, pflanzen, Einfluss, pflegen, behilflich. \stopbuffer \starttext \startTEXpage[offset=1em] \getbuffer \stopTEXpage \stoptext This is LuaTeX, Version beta-0.47.0-2009121822 ConTeXt ver: 2009.12.18 11:12 MKIV fmt: 2009.12.19 Greetings Andreas