newbie question: greek in ConTeXt?
After using LateX for a while, I became interested in ConTeXt and was immediately fascinated by the ease of use and the logical structure of commands. However, for my job, I need to typeset in ancient Greek (politoniko). There are a couple of packages for LaTeX that can do that (Teubner, psgreek e.g.), but can it be done in ConTeXt? I already stumble whenever I try to set the language to Greek; I get a couple of error messages (I use the standard teTex-distribution on a Mac with OS X 10.2). Can anybody point me to helpful documents or discussions? Thanks a lot! -- Thomas A. Schmitz Philologisches Seminar Universitaet Bonn Am Hof 1 e 53113 Bonn Germany
Monday, May 12, 2003 Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: TAS> After using LateX for a while, I became interested in TAS> ConTeXt and was immediately fascinated by the ease of use TAS> and the logical structure of commands. However, for my TAS> job, I need to typeset in ancient Greek (politoniko). TAS> There are a couple of packages for LaTeX that can do that TAS> (Teubner, psgreek e.g.), but can it be done in ConTeXt? I TAS> already stumble whenever I try to set the language to TAS> Greek; I get a couple of error messages (I use the TAS> standard teTex-distribution on a Mac with OS X 10.2). Can TAS> anybody point me to helpful documents or discussions? TAS> Thanks a lot! What kind of errors do you get? Some time ago I did give the thing a quick try, and could do something by using Gamma (ConTeXt compiled with an Omega engine), and could do something; but since the greek-relevant OCPs in Omega are defective, I dropped the thing. Something that could probably be done is setting up a typescript to use, for example, Claudio Beccari's fonts (cbgreek). Also, there may be some Greek ConTeXt user (maybe the one who contributed the Greek-specific language things?). He might know more. (Sorry for the quick answer, I will try to come out with a draft for the cbgreek typescripts later :>) -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
Some time ago I did give the thing a quick try, and could do something by using Gamma (ConTeXt compiled with an Omega engine), and could do something; but since the greek-relevant OCPs in Omega are defective, I dropped the thing.
I'd be curious to know what was wrong with those otp's (not that I hardly ever use greek). Best Idris
Thursday, May 15, 2003 Idris S Hamid wrote: ISH> Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
Some time ago I did give the thing a quick try, and could do something by using Gamma (ConTeXt compiled with an Omega engine), and could do something; but since the greek-relevant OCPs in Omega are defective, I dropped the thing.
ISH> I'd be curious to know what was wrong with those otp's (not that I
ISH> hardly ever use greek).
Off the top of my head: some obvious combinations were
missing/didn't seem to work (example: =A,
Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
BTW, Idris, I locally made a few changes to m-gamma, partly to make it more ConTeXtish, and partly to make it capable of using the latest OTPs (those from the 1.2x series, which anyway don't seem to fix the problem); you may want to have a look at it and "officialize" the changes. Shall I send it to you?
Sure, I'll be happy to look at it. But I'd also be happy to turn over maintanence of m-gamma to you (and Hans), since u're much more of an expert in these things and I'm still a rank amateur:-) Off-topic: By the way, we need a torture file for eOmega. I'm still a little worried that the TRIP-fix may have broken some of the Omega-specific features, and a good torture file would help immensely in noticing these things. I'll try to whip something up in addition to Omega's torture.tex (which I could never get to work anyway...) Best Idris
At 13:09 17/05/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
BTW, Idris, I locally made a few changes to m-gamma, partly to make it more ConTeXtish, and partly to make it capable of using the latest OTPs (those from the 1.2x series, which anyway don't seem to fix the problem); you may want to have a look at it and "officialize" the changes. Shall I send it to you?
Sure, I'll be happy to look at it. But I'd also be happy to turn over maintanence of m-gamma to you (and Hans), since u're much more of an expert in these things and I'm still a rank amateur:-)
as soon as you have m-gamma complete i'll move thinsg to the core of context
Off-topic: By the way, we need a torture file for eOmega. I'm still a little worried that the TRIP-fix may have broken some of the Omega-specific
what tripping the problem? it may be an unimportant one
features, and a good torture file would help immensely in noticing these things. I'll try to whip something up in addition to Omega's torture.tex (which I could never get to work anyway...)
forget about such tests, the real test for eomega is a 300 page document with average memory settings; the main thing is to make sure that the otp parser does not keep on reading whole files Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday, May 17, 2003 Hans Hagen wrote: HH> At 13:09 17/05/2003 -0600, Idris S Hamid wrote:
Giuseppe Bilotta wrote:
BTW, Idris, I locally made a few changes to m-gamma, partly to make it more ConTeXtish, and partly to make it capable of using the latest OTPs (those from the 1.2x series, which anyway don't seem to fix the problem); you may want to have a look at it and "officialize" the changes. Shall I send it to you?
Sure, I'll be happy to look at it. But I'd also be happy to turn over maintanence of m-gamma to you (and Hans), since u're much more of an expert in these things and I'm still a rank amateur:-)
HH> as soon as you have m-gamma complete i'll move thinsg to the core of context Two things: supporting gamma is for me somewhat a problem, because I have *very* limited knowledge of the multilingual stuff which is in it. The only fixes I implemented were some "ConTeXtization" of a few things which had remained "LaTeXish" or even TeXish in a couple of cases. Anyway, the current m-gamma thing can only be a temporary solution: the whole thing really needs to be redesigned from scratch with ConTeXt in mind, and ConTeXt-specific OTPs should be designed.
Off-topic: By the way, we need a torture file for eOmega. I'm still a little worried that the TRIP-fix may have broken some of the Omega-specific
HH> what tripping the problem? it may be an unimportant one It was an extremely important one: it popped up in many real-world cases (at least according to Alan). The fix should not break anything, because it consisted in a removal of a routine which was used but without side-effects (at least that I could see). There other tripping problems (i.e. I *lied* when I said e-Omega can now trip correctly), but these seem to be major and will be addressed in the (hopefully near) future.
features, and a good torture file would help immensely in noticing these things. I'll try to whip something up in addition to Omega's torture.tex (which I could never get to work anyway...)
HH> forget about such tests, the real test for eomega is a 300 page document HH> with average memory settings; the main thing is to make sure that the otp HH> parser does not keep on reading whole files Do you have some such a test file? If you provide a link, I can try it here. Anyway, we do need real torture tests, possibly as heinous as TRIP and ETRIP (which BTW reminds me I should try to ETRIP e-Omega ...). -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
At 01:27 18/05/2003 +0200, you wrote:
HH> forget about such tests, the real test for eomega is a 300 page document HH> with average memory settings; the main thing is to make sure that the otp HH> parser does not keep on reading whole files
Do you have some such a test file? If you provide a link, I can try it here.
i'll see if i can do some tests when fabrice posts the binary
Anyway, we do need real torture tests, possibly as heinous as TRIP and ETRIP (which BTW reminds me I should try to ETRIP e-Omega ...).
just wondering: do you use etex's >255 registers or just omega's native ones? Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, May 18, 2003 Hans Hagen wrote: HH> At 01:27 18/05/2003 +0200, you wrote:
HH> forget about such tests, the real test for eomega is a 300 page document HH> with average memory settings; the main thing is to make sure that the otp HH> parser does not keep on reading whole files
Do you have some such a test file? If you provide a link, I can try it here.
HH> i'll see if i can do some tests when fabrice posts the binary
Anyway, we do need real torture tests, possibly as heinous as TRIP and ETRIP (which BTW reminds me I should try to ETRIP e-Omega ...).
HH> just wondering: do you use etex's >255 registers or just omega's native ones? I use Omega's native ones, mostly. The only exception is that \marks registers (these follow the e-TeX implementation). -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
[Please cc Alan for this thread.] Hans Hagen wrote:
features, and a good torture file would help immensely in noticing these things. I'll try to whip something up in addition to Omega's torture.tex (which I could never get to work anyway...)
forget about such tests, the real test for eomega is a 300 page document with average memory settings; the main thing is to make sure that the otp parser does not keep on reading whole files
I have some pretty intense stuff here, but unfortunately the otp's and fonts are proprietary so we can't use them for general testing. But I have some all-vowelized Arabic stuff extending over a hundred pages that generally works fine. Some of it uses EDMAC, which really helps to tax the memory etc. Fully vowelized Arabic is the most taxing stuff; I guess I can port some of my stuff to the default Omega font (omarb) for testing, though the results will look chaotic unless I write new otp's for that font (ugh). On the other hand, since u and gb don't know Arabic :-( that will not matter at all. I'll try to put something together in the next two weeks (grading, teaching Summer session, going to DC for a speech r keeping me tied up 4 now). Best Idris
One more thing: if you could find a way to get rid of this input file in m-gamma (which is just a port/improvement of omega.sty) grlccode.tex Hans will be quite happy. But since I don't know Greek I don't know what to do with it. Best Idris
At 13:40 17/05/2003 -0600, you wrote:
One more thing:
if you could find a way to get rid of this input file in m-gamma (which is just a port/improvement of omega.sty)
grlccode.tex
Hans will be quite happy. But since I don't know Greek I don't know what to do with it.
non-omega greek will be available soon so that's a starting point Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Monday, May 12, 2003 Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: TAS> After using LateX for a while, I became interested in TAS> ConTeXt and was immediately fascinated by the ease of use TAS> and the logical structure of commands. However, for my TAS> job, I need to typeset in ancient Greek (politoniko). TAS> There are a couple of packages for LaTeX that can do that TAS> (Teubner, psgreek e.g.), but can it be done in ConTeXt? I TAS> already stumble whenever I try to set the language to TAS> Greek; I get a couple of error messages (I use the TAS> standard teTex-distribution on a Mac with OS X 10.2). Can TAS> anybody point me to helpful documents or discussions? Ok, I did some quick&dirty job which you may want to test there; it requires the cbgreek fonts, though (having never used Teubner or psgreek, I have no idea how those work). Please see the attacked cbgreek.tex (containing the typescript definition for greek serif only, yet) and greektest.tex (containing an example document). -- Giuseppe "Oblomov" Bilotta
participants (4)
-
Giuseppe Bilotta -
Hans Hagen -
Idris S Hamid -
Thomas A. Schmitz