Dear All, sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested in "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics" http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering the result? BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font? Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.? Sincerely, Nichail
Hi,
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:04 AM, Michail Vidiassov
Dear All,
sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested in "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"
Yes, you can do that in XeTeX. (I don't think this is a good idea to do so. math characters are difficult to input using standard keyboard.)
http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf
or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering the result?
You should be very careful by doing so. Math support is very different from standard text. It requires more parameters than normal text to determine the position of the glyphs (normal fonts won't contain these information). Yes, you can use these fonts, but for most of the time you will get ugly results.
BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font?
There is an OpenType Math font naming Asana Math which is free available on CTAN.
Taking one from MS Office 2007?
Yes. ConTeXt also provides typescript for that.
Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.?
Maybe you should wait for the TeX Gyre Math font. However, I think TG fonts still need improvements.
Sincerely, Nichail ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
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Yue Wang
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:04 PM, Michail Vidiassov wrote:
Dear All,
sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested in "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"
http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf
No. No in the sense that it's just about support for modern math fonts (that are about to come). Users should not notice the difference in general, for example when using "plain" math with LM, Antykwa, TeX Gyre (px, tx), ... The answer to your question might as well be a tiny bit of yes because I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. The side effect of this transition is also that you should be able to use "mathematical greek italic alpha" instead of \alpha or α, or mathematical italic letter a instead of just plain $a$, but I doubt that any sane user would want to do that by typing those characters directly with a keyboard. I have an impression that the document (even thoug the page is not accessible) is about the way to input math in Word. Is there any feature in TeX (input) that you are missing?
or use of the Unicode fonts with math ranges in rendering the result?
Yes.
BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font? Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts (what happened yo them, there seems to be a delay fir yunpublihrt reason.?
Stix is not (and probably will not be) supported unless someone else writes support for those fonts or unless they publish the proper OpenType version. You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma. Other math fonts (LM, px, tx, ...) are currently remapped to the proper Unicode range to make them behave as if they were proper OpenType math fonts. But they still need some testing and fixes. Mojca
Dear Mojca and All,
sorry for a stupid question, the unicode math that is about to come means formula input using Unicode Math instead of tex commands as suggested in "Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics"
The answer to your question might as well be a tiny bit of yes because I'm not sure what exactly you are asking. The side effect of this transition is also that you should be able to use "mathematical greek italic alpha" instead of \alpha or α, or mathematical italic letter a instead of just plain $a$, but I doubt that any sane user would want to do that by typing those characters directly with a keyboard.
I have an impression that the document (even thoug the page is not accessible) is about the way to input math in Word. Is there any feature in TeX (input) that you are missing?
Alternative URL is http://www.activemath.org/workshops/MathUI/07/proceedings/Sargent-TwoSyntaxe... And the system described is that "tiny bit of yes" on steroids - not only variables, but also operators, like using the unicode N-ARY SUMMATION instead of \sum As to the user sanity - inconvenient input may be balanced by easy reading - if formulae get very long math symbols come convenient. And no need to give up typing in favour of mousing things out of glyph tables - replace on input or search-and-replace on command are in almost any editor nowdays, to say nothing of sed.
BTW, what are the options for getting a unicode math font? Taking one from MS Office 2007? Waiting for Stix fonts
Stix is not (and probably will not be) supported
Are there any information about their plans to release anything? They promised to make fonts proper after beta release, but later turned silent.
You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma. How? What are the typescripts?
Sincerely, Michail
i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why? $ context --version MtxRun | main context file: /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39 $ luatex --version This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown % engine=luatex \usetypescript[cambria] \setupbodyfont[cambria] \starttext $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ \stoptext uses Latin Modern i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz ! Undefined control sequence. <recently read> \usetikzlibrary l.11 \usetikzlibrary [arrows,automata,fit] ? also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :) btw, thanks a lot. Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 13.02.2009 um 18:12 schrieb Michail Vidiassov:
You can already use Cambria Math or Asana Math in mkiv with the non-released LuaTeX with ConTeXt beta from Pragma. How? What are the typescripts?
\usetypescript[cambria] \setupbodyfont[cambria]
Wolfgang
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
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Am 13.02.2009 um 20:44 schrieb Mohamed Bana:
i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
$ context --version MtxRun | main context file: /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf- context/tex/context/base/context.tex MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
$ luatex --version This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
You need the last beta version (2009.02.09) and the last LuaTeX version (0.33.1) plus Microsofts cambria fonts. I find it odd to get a upright mu with µ and the italic with \mu in math mode, shouldn't both give the same result?
also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
You can find the typescript in $TEXMF/tex/context/base/type-xxx.tex Asana Math is not supported by default, the typescripts are missing. Wolfgang
On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 13.02.2009 um 20:44 schrieb Mohamed Bana:
I find it odd to get a upright mu with µ and the italic with \mu in math mode, shouldn't both give the same result?
I find it a miracle that it works at all :) Just joking. Greek inside math is not working properly yet due to duplication and slight confusion between greek (U+03XX) and math greek (U+1D6XX) ranges. Just the proper mapping is missing at the moment - the same kind of mapping that turns "lowercase latin a" into "mathematical italic small a".
also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
You can find the typescript in $TEXMF/tex/context/base/type-xxx.tex
Asana Math is not supported by default, the typescripts are missing.
However there's no reason for not adding them. It's probably the only free OpenType math font so far. Mojca
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
$ context --version MtxRun | main context file: /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
$ luatex --version This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you need your own LuaTeX).
% engine=luatex
\usetypescript[cambria] \setupbodyfont[cambria]
\starttext $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ \stoptext
uses Latin Modern
i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
! Undefined control sequence. <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
l.11 \usetikzlibrary [arrows,automata,fit] ?
Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).
also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's back). Mojca
in first-setup.sh # download or update the distribution # you may remove the --context=beta switch mtxrun --verbose --script ./bin/mtx-update.lua --update --make --force --engine=all --context=alpha --texroot=$PWD/tex --extras=t-tikz $@ got this error loading : Context Synchronization ) (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-pln.tex) (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-ini.mkiv ! LuaTeX error ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: table index is nil stack traceback: ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: in main chunk <main ctx instance>:1: in main chunk. \ctxluabytecode ...de[#1] = nil end else end end } \registerctxluafile ...{\the \luabytecodecounter } \fi l.43 \registerctxluafile{math-noa}{1.001} ? Mojca Miklavec wrote:
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
$ context --version MtxRun | main context file: /home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
$ luatex --version This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you need your own LuaTeX).
% engine=luatex
\usetypescript[cambria] \setupbodyfont[cambria]
\starttext $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ \stoptext
uses Latin Modern
i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
! Undefined control sequence. <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
l.11 \usetikzlibrary [arrows,automata,fit] ?
Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).
also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's back).
Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
please replace your luatex with the svn trunk version and run
context --make
again.
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Mohamed Bana
in first-setup.sh
# download or update the distribution # you may remove the --context=beta switch mtxrun --verbose --script ./bin/mtx-update.lua --update --make --force --engine=all --context=alpha --texroot=$PWD/tex --extras=t-tikz $@
got this error
loading : Context Synchronization ) (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-pln.tex) (/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-ini.mkiv ! LuaTeX error ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: table index is nil stack traceback: ...mals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/math-noa.lua:161: in main chunk <main ctx instance>:1: in main chunk. \ctxluabytecode ...de[#1] = nil end else end end }
\registerctxluafile ...{\the \luabytecodecounter } \fi l.43 \registerctxluafile{math-noa}{1.001}
?
Mojca Miklavec wrote:
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Mohamed Bana wrote:
i upgraded only to check if this would would, and it didn't, any idea why?
$ context --version MtxRun | main context file:
/home/mbana/context-minimals/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/context.tex MtxRun | current version: 2009.01.18 14:39
$ luatex --version This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.31.3-2008123108, build unknown
You need version 0.33.1 from SVN and the latest ConTeXt (about 5 days old; in minimals it's --context=alpha and it's beta on Pragma, but you need your own LuaTeX).
% engine=luatex
\usetypescript[cambria] \setupbodyfont[cambria]
\starttext $\mu$ µ is ok, but $µ$ is ţ \stoptext
uses Latin Modern
i'm getting this error when i try to use Tikz
! Undefined control sequence. <recently read> \usetikzlibrary
l.11 \usetikzlibrary [arrows,automata,fit] ?
Did you check for notices like "module tikz not loaded" in the log? If you use the minimals you need to make sure to add --extras=t-tikz to first-setup.sh (or add that switch when you call first-setup.sh).
also where exactly are the typescripts located and do you happen to have the Asana Math typescripts as well? :)
They are in type-otf.tex. If you want to use Asana, just copy the whole portion of cambria typescripts and search-and-replace-all from cambria to asana (or ask Hans politely to do that in core once he's back).
Mojca
___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michail Vidiassov wrote:
Dear Mojca and All,
And the system described is that "tiny bit of yes" on steroids - not only variables, but also operators, like using the unicode N-ARY SUMMATION instead of \sum
Hello Michail, The following works OK also in mkii: ∑_{i=1}^∞\frac{1}{2^n} Mojca
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Mojca Miklavec
The following works OK also in mkii: ∑_{i=1}^∞\frac{1}{2^n}
Be careful to note that you are using U+2211 N-ary Summation (∑) rather than U+03A3 Greek Capital Letter Sigma (Σ). Note also that Murray Sargent's "nearly plain text" includes characters to distinguish the N-ary-and. (It's not quite TeX, but it's an interesting input format, especially for interactive use. MS Word will replace the text "\sum " with "∑", on-the-fly and consuming the space.) —Joel
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:04 PM, Michail Vidiassov
"Unicode Nearly Plain-Text Encoding of Mathematics" http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn28/UTN28-PlainTextMath-v2.pdf
Unicode Tech Note #28 is completely unrelated to TeX. It is a suggestion for a different method of encoding math, distinct from TeX, MathML, &c., but with the advantage that it looks nearly like plain (Unicode) text. The paper was written by Murray Sargent of Microsoft, who works with the MS Office Math component and maintains a blog about it at http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/. The input to Office 2007+ Math is based on this paper, and you can in fact switch an equation in Word between "display" and "linear" formats. (The internal format is XML-based OMML.) —Joel
participants (6)
-
Joel C. Salomon -
Michail Vidiassov -
Mohamed Bana -
Mojca Miklavec -
Wolfgang Schuster -
Yue Wang