On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:53 PM, luigi scarso wrote:

On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Curious Learn wrote:

...

Can someone please explain why the second example below works but the first does not work? Thanks very much.

\starttext

\bTABLE \dorecurse{5} {\bTR \bTD \recurselevel. \eTD          \bTD \recurselevel  \eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

\dorecurse{2} {\recurselevel. \recurselevel\crlf}

\stoptext

works ok here with latest minimals This is LuaTeX, Version snapshot-0.35.0-2009022702 (Web2C 7.5.7) ConTeXt  ver: 2008.11.10 21:40 MKIV  fmt: 2009.3.4  int: english/english oops...I forget my code sorry

\starttext %%% TeX version \bTABLE \dorecurse{5} {\bTR\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel. \eTD\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel \eTD\eTR} \eTABLE \dorecurse{2} {\recurselevel. \recurselevel\crlf} %%% luatex version \startluacode tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end tprint('\\bTABLE') for j = 1,5 do tprint('\\bTR') tprint('\\bTD' .. j .. '.' .. '\\eTD' .. '\\bTD' .. j .. '\\eTD') tprint('\\eTR') end tprint('\\eTABLE') \stopluacode \stoptext -- luigi

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Am 05.03.2009 um 01:17 schrieb luigi scarso:

...

\starttext %%% TeX version \bTABLE \dorecurse{5} {\bTR\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel. \eTD\expandafter        \bTD \recurselevel  \eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

\dorecurse{2} {\recurselevel. \recurselevel\crlf}

And you think it's a good idea to use \expandafter in your document?

TeX version, not context ... :) btw \expandafer is not so bad, if used moderatly .

\expanded is the tool for users to get this result without knowledge about TeX internals and expansion, this is from core-ntb:

% permits \expanded{\bTD ... \eTD}

\unexpanded\def\eTR{} \unexpanded\def\eTD{} \unexpanded\def\eTH{} \unexpanded\def\eTN{}

yes, of course one need to know about \expandafter... so is not so different . But it's context style.

...

%%% luatex version \startluacode   tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end   tprint('\\bTABLE')   for j = 1,5 do       tprint('\\bTR')       tprint('\\bTD' .. j .. '.' .. '\\eTD' .. '\\bTD' .. j .. '\\eTD')       tprint('\\eTR')   end   tprint('\\eTABLE') \stopluacode \stoptext

Nice solution and real alternative for package writers to avoid \expandafter and \expanded but nothing for a normal user, I should keep this in my mind.

Are you sure ? What is a normal user ? As soon as you use \dorecurse , you become a programmer . And sooner or later, everyone become a programmer, because it's impossible to write a format that satisfied all your needs . -- luigi

People who want to use TeX to write a document but copy code from examples, old list messages etc. but don't why they have to do it something like this.

OK, it's hard to write a fancy layout without defining your own header styles etc. without a definition but use then as many high level contructs (\framed, \define, ...) as possible and try to avoid things like \vbox or \expandafter.

This is my point of view : "use TeX to write a document" = "write a program in TeX programming language" TeX programming language is not like lua, python, c++ , java and so on; TeX programming language is like m4, ie a macro language. If you write a simple document (= a simple program) context high-level const.s will almost completly hide the programming aspect ; but it's impossible that context "high-level" cover *all* program; so sooner or later one will use lua(tex) expression (which can be a "natural" choice for most of programmer but can be slow) , or ContTeXt macro (which can be less slow but not so natural ) , or even TeX macro - primitive .

http://texblog.net/latex-archive/plaintex/expandafter/ hey, this is not a "moderate use of expandafter" as I intended .. I dropped latex for similar examples . In this situation "please, grep setvalue base/*"

-- luigi

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Am 05.03.2009 um 14:23 schrieb luigi scarso:

...

...

http://texblog.net/latex-archive/plaintex/expandafter/

hey, this is not a "moderate use of expandafter" as I intended .. I dropped latex for similar examples . In this situation "please, grep setvalue base/*"

??? I can't understand the relation between \setvalue and the expandafter trick in the example on the webpage, setvalue hides the csname ... endcsname part but the example tries to avoid the \let\oldmacro\macro \def\macro{\oldmacro...} redefinition.

I don't like the \let\oldmacro\macro \def\macro{\oldmacro...} construct because sometimes the \def\macro{\oldmacro...} can cause unexpected behaviour I prefear \setvalue{quote small}{\quote\small} {\getvalue{quote small} foo } -- luigi

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Am 05.03.2009 um 15:23 schrieb luigi scarso:

...

I prefear

\setvalue{quote small}{\quote\small} {\getvalue{quote small} foo }

This is non trivial example, normally I would define a new quote command with

 \definedelimitedtext[quotesmall][quote]

but you above code can't be achieved with this because the results are either small text or text with quotes at both sides but not a combination of them.

How about: \define\quotesmall{\groupedcommand{\quote\small}{}}

sound good. Does it work \setvalue{quote:small}{\groupedcommand{\quote\small}{}} ? -- luigi

My summary of this thread: http://randomdeterminism.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/tex-programming-the-past-t...

It's exactly what I think . Thank you very much. -- luigi

Hi Aditya, Happy luaTeXing. Great summary. Willi On Mar 6, 2009, at 4:05 AM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, luigi scarso wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 05.03.2009 um 01:17 schrieb luigi scarso:

...

\starttext %%% TeX version \bTABLE \dorecurse{5} {\bTR\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel. \eTD\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel \eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

\dorecurse{2} {\recurselevel. \recurselevel\crlf}

And you think it's a good idea to use \expandafter in your document?

TeX version, not context ... :) btw \expandafer is not so bad, if used moderatly .

...

\expanded is the tool for users to get this result without knowledge about TeX internals and expansion, this is from core-ntb:

% permits \expanded{\bTD ... \eTD}

\unexpanded\def\eTR{} \unexpanded\def\eTD{} \unexpanded\def\eTH{} \unexpanded\def\eTN{}

yes, of course one need to know about \expandafter... so is not so different . But it's context style.

...

...

%%% luatex version \startluacode tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end tprint('\\bTABLE') for j = 1,5 do tprint('\\bTR') tprint('\\bTD' .. j .. '.' .. '\\eTD' .. '\\bTD' .. j .. '\ \eTD') tprint('\\eTR') end tprint('\\eTABLE') \stopluacode \stoptext

Nice solution and real alternative for package writers to avoid \expandafter and \expanded but nothing for a normal user, I should keep this in my mind.

Are you sure ? What is a normal user ? As soon as you use \dorecurse , you become a programmer .

And sooner or later, everyone become a programmer, because it's impossible to write a format that satisfied all your needs .

My summary of this thread: http://randomdeterminism.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/tex-programming- the-past-the-present-and-the-future/

Aditya________________________________________________________________ ___________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ______________________________________________________________________ _____________

Do I pick up any beginners book on Lua?

There really is only one beginners book on Lua :-) _Programming in Lua_, by Roberto Ierusalimschy, the Lua author. There are a few other books, mostly about "Lua and games", because Lua has become quite popular in the gamers' community, but Roberto's book is really excellent and makes a good tutorial.

For example, one of the lines in the code is

tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end

Is this Lua or LuaTex?

The question does not really makes sense if you put it that way. This line of code is pure Lua, it is completely syntactically correct; but you can't use as it a standalone Lua script, because it uses functions that only LuaTeX and ConTeXt define (think of it as the action of "import" in Python, except that here it's not available as a stand-alone library call; it's built into LuaTeX). Hence, if you want to become proficient in Lua programming in ConTeXt, you need to learn: * The Lua programming language, with its core libraries (covered in the aforementioned book). * The Lua libraries that LuaTeX adds to Lua, documented in the LuaTeX manual. * The Lua libraries that ConTeXt adds to LuaTeX. The above line of code is really a mixture of the three, but in any case, the ground stone is always Lua. Arthur

I like the Luatex code of Luigi. Though it is longer than what Wolfgang suggested (and in this case, I am using Wolfgang's solution now that I know about it), the luatex code seems to be the kind of programming that I am more comfortable with. In fact, in Latex when I was trying to achieve this, I used the python.sty package to code this in Python. The optimal solution is that one of Wolfgang that uses \expanded . The others are less than optimal.

To be able to do this using Lua (Luatex), do I need to learn the Lua programming language. Do I pick up any beginners book on Lua? Any recommendations based on experience of those who use Luatex here. Programming in Lua , see www.lua.org

For example, one of the lines in the code is

 tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end

Is this Lua or LuaTex?

luatex -- luigi

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Am 06.03.2009 um 04:05 schrieb Aditya Mahajan:

...

My summary of this thread: http://randomdeterminism.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/tex-programming-the-past-t...

Nice article but I have a few corrections for you.

Table setup:

To achieve horizontal and vertical centered content in the table cell you need 'align={middle,lohi}'.

Hmm... align={middle,middle} also works. I haven't checked the code to see why.

Pure table code:

You forgot the \bTR and \eTR before and after each row.

Thanks.

Expandafter solution:

You don't need as many \expandafter as you did in your example, one before \bTD in each loop is enough.

\bTABLE \bTR \bTD $(+)$ \eTD \dorecurse{6} {\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel \eTD} \eTR \dorecurse{6} {\bTR \edef\firstrecurselevel{\recurselevel} \expandafter\bTD \recurselevel \eTD \dorecurse{6} {\expandafter \bTD \the\numexpr\firstrecurselevel+\recurselevel\relax \eTD} \eTR} \eTABLE

Ah. I was experimenting without the \the\numexpr (replacing both by \relax) so that I could see the output. I did not realize that \numexpr expands its arguments anyways.

\for loop:

If you really want to show this loop you also the correct commands to access the counters. #1 did also work but only because the command is wrapped around \dostepwiserecurse.

\bTABLE \bTR \bTD $(+)$ \eTD \for \y=1 \to 6 \step 1 \do {\bTD \y \eTD} \eTR \for \x=1 \to 6 \step 1 \do {\bTR \bTD \x \eTD \for \y=1 \to 6 \step 1 \do {\bTD \the\numexpr\x+\y \eTD} \eTR} \eTABLE

This does not work, for the same reason that the \dorecurse solution does not work. You need to exapnad \x and \y in the first row and first column.

Thank you for the article and I'm looking forward for the next.

Thanks for the feedback. Aditya

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009, luigi scarso wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

...

Am 05.03.2009 um 01:17 schrieb luigi scarso:

...

\starttext %%% TeX version \bTABLE \dorecurse{5} {\bTR\expandafter \bTD \recurselevel. \eTD\expandafter        \bTD \recurselevel  \eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

\dorecurse{2} {\recurselevel. \recurselevel\crlf}

And you think it's a good idea to use \expandafter in your document?

TeX version, not context ... :) btw \expandafer is not so bad, if used moderatly .

...

\expanded is the tool for users to get this result without knowledge about TeX internals and expansion, this is from core-ntb:

% permits \expanded{\bTD ... \eTD}

\unexpanded\def\eTR{} \unexpanded\def\eTD{} \unexpanded\def\eTH{} \unexpanded\def\eTN{}

yes, of course one need to know about \expandafter... so is not so different . But it's context style.

...

...

%%% luatex version \startluacode   tprint = function(s) tex.sprint(tex.ctxcatcodes,s) end   tprint('\\bTABLE')   for j = 1,5 do       tprint('\\bTR')       tprint('\\bTD' .. j .. '.' .. '\\eTD' .. '\\bTD' .. j .. '\\eTD')       tprint('\\eTR')   end   tprint('\\eTABLE') \stopluacode \stoptext

Nice solution and real alternative for package writers to avoid \expandafter and \expanded but nothing for a normal user, I should keep this in my mind.

Are you sure ? What is a normal user ? As soon as you use \dorecurse , you become a programmer .

And sooner or later, everyone become a programmer, because it's impossible to write a format that satisfied all your needs .

My summary of this thread: http://randomdeterminism.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/tex-programming-the-past-t...

For fun: Using metapost \setupcolors[state=start] \setupTABLE[each][each][width=2em,height=2em,align={middle,middle}] \setupTABLE[r][1][background=color,backgroundcolor=gray] \setupTABLE[c][1][background=color,backgroundcolor=gray] \let\normalbTABLE\bTABLE \let\normaleTABLE\eTABLE \unexpanded\def\bTABLE{\normalbTABLE} \unexpanded\def\eTABLE{\normaleTABLE} \unexpanded\def\dobTR{\dodoubleempty\parseTR} \unexpanded\def\dobTD{\dodoubleempty\parseTD} \unexpanded\def\dobTH{\dodoubleempty\parseTH} \unexpanded\def\dobTN{\dodoubleempty\parseTN} \let\bTR\dobTR \let\bTD\dobTD \let\bTH\dobTH \let\bTN\dobTN \starttext \startMPcode string table ; table = "\bTABLE \bTR \bTD $(+)$ \eTD" & for y = 1 upto 6 : "\bTD " & decimal y & "\eTD " & endfor "\eTR " & for x = 1 upto 6 : "\bTR \bTD " & decimal x & "\eTD " & for y = 1 upto 6 : "\bTD " & decimal (x+y) & "\eTD " & endfor "\eTR" & endfor "\eTABLE" ; label(textext(table), origin) ; \stopMPcode \stoptext Aditya

Wolfgang Schuster writes:

\bTABLE \dorecurse{5}{\bTR\expanded{\bTD\recurselevel\eTD}\eTR} \eTABLE

Wolfgang

As your other solutions, this worked great. I suppose I have to use \expanded for every \bTD \eTD pair. Can you please explain why this is necessary or point me to a document that contains the explanation. Thanks very much.

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

\bTABLE \dorecurse{5}{\bTR\bTD#1\eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

This is evil genious! Aditya

Not really.

\bTABLE \dorecurse{5}{\bTR\bTD#1\eTD\eTR} \eTABLE

Wolfgang

Awesome!!!! How does one learn these things? Is this Tex programming or Context programming. Thanks very much.