ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

Pablo Rodriguez

27 Aug 2017 27 Aug '17

7:24 p.m.

Dear Mojca, [I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might concern :-).] After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all my work documents should be PDF/A. Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite. This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents. In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid. If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite, please tell me and I will do it. Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

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Peter Rolf

27 Aug 27 Aug

8:23 p.m.

Hi Pablo, Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...

Dear Mojca,

[I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might concern :-).]

After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all my work documents should be PDF/A.

Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

...

This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents.

In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid.

If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite, please tell me and I will do it.

In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that, so no changes were made. Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of them), set the environment variable manually, and done. http://www.colourmanagement.net/advice/where-are-my-icc-profiles

...

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo

Peter

Pablo Rodriguez

9:49 p.m.

On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:

...

Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...
[...] Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

Hi Peter, how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?

...

In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that, so no changes were made.

Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.

...

Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of them), set the environment variable manually, and done.

I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall (something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for that computer. As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once. Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with ConTeXt). Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

Peter Rolf

11:26 p.m.

Am 27.08.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...

On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:

...
Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...
[...] Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

Hi Peter,

how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?

Different locations need different profiles. That's why there are also the region related archives (Europe, India, Japan and USA). You can't divide it any further than that.

...

...
In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that, so no changes were made.

Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.

Exactly, it doesn't work. It's still mentioned in the partly outdated information on the garden, but there is no 'OSCOLORDIR' string anywhere in the context tree.

...

...
Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of them), set the environment variable manually, and done.

I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall (something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for that computer.

As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once.

Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with ConTeXt).

I see. Still no love for 'OSCOLORDIR'. R.I.P. :D

...

Many thanks for your help,

No problem, you are welcome. Looks to me like you are solving the problem by yourself. I guess a module is a good idea.

...

Pablo

Peter

Hans Hagen

28 Aug 28 Aug

9:47 a.m.

On 8/27/2017 11:26 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:

...

Am 27.08.2017 um 21:49 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...
On 08/27/2017 08:23 PM, Peter Rolf wrote:

...
Am 27.08.2017 um 19:24 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez:

...
[...] Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

Because they are hardly used (simply judging from feedback). Not enough to justify a file size increase of 26.2 MByte.

Hi Peter,

how about limiting the number of profiles to the basic ones? Or how about an option in first-setup.sh named --icc-profiles?

Different locations need different profiles. That's why there are also the region related archives (Europe, India, Japan and USA). You can't divide it any further than that.

We had it but it (a new var) was not accepted in tex live so we dropped it and context can find the files anyway.

...

...
...
In theory you can use the environment variable $OSCOLORDIR, but it was dropped years ago. There were no complains or error reports about that, so no changes were made.

Either I don’t get your point, or $OSCOLORDIR won’t work in practice.

Exactly, it doesn't work. It's still mentioned in the partly outdated information on the garden, but there is no 'OSCOLORDIR' string anywhere in the context tree.

...

...
...
Would still be the cleanest solution though. Copy the icc files once in the corresponding directory of your OS (so that all apps can make use of them), set the environment variable manually, and done.

I would have to do that with thirty computers. And probably I would have to ask for permissions to copy the profiles (and set system-wide environment variables). When a computer would have a full OS reinstall (something far beyond my control), I would have to do that again for that computer.

As far as I maintain ConTeXt in a common server and we use it for very specific tasks, we only have the ConTeXt Suite installed once.

Sorry, but this isn’t practical for me (we’d only use the profiles with ConTeXt).

I see. Still no love for 'OSCOLORDIR'. R.I.P. :D

...
Many thanks for your help,

No problem, you are welcome. Looks to me like you are solving the problem by yourself. I guess a module is a good idea. FWIW, in colorprofiles.xml one can find the places where one can find

And context would fallback on whatever location anyway. the files. We could of course put copies in the garden someplace. Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Mojca Miklavec

27 Aug 27 Aug

10:08 p.m.

Hi, On 27 August 2017 at 19:24, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...

Dear Mojca,

[I beg your pardon, if you aren’t the maintainer of the ConTeXt Suite distribution. In that case I address this message to whom it might concern :-).]

After reading some messages about PDF/A and PDF/X, I remembered that all my work documents should be PDF/A.

Since we have ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Garden (http://wiki.contextgarden.net/PDFX#ICC_profiles, http://dl.contextgarden.net/misc/iccprofiles/complete_ICC_profiles.zip), I wonder why they aren’t part of the ConTeXt Suite.

I see various reasons: - I don't remember anyone explicitly asking for them. - I suspect that Hans is not allowed to put them into his zip due to various licencing issues, but it also increases the size. - It's a bit inconvenient to fetch the files from a random place. The easiest way to handle that would be by creating a proper ConTeXt third-party module and then we would only add another module to the list.

...

This would make things easier to create some kinds of PDF documents.

In my personal case, I cannot update the ConTeXt Suite at work. I have to download it at home and replace the directory. Having to add the ICC profiles each time is something I’d rather avoid.

If there is something I can do to add those files to the ConTeXt Suite, please tell me and I will do it.

It would help if other people provide more feedback, but probably the best way would be to create a module and upload it to modules.contextgarden.net. Maybe best get some feedback about the most suitable location of the files before creating the module? Mojca

Pablo Rodriguez

10:23 p.m.

On 08/27/2017 10:08 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
> On 27 August 2017 at 19:24, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> [...]
> - It's a bit inconvenient to fetch the files from a random place. The
> easiest way to handle that would be by creating a proper ConTeXt
> third-party module and then we would only add another module to the
> list.

Hi Mojca,

then I’ll create the module.

I guess I have to include the profiles and a README. But a simple
question comes to my mind, how can I add the *.icc files into
tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

> It would help if other people provide more feedback, but probably the
> best way would be to create a module and upload it to
> modules.contextgarden.net. Maybe best get some feedback about the most
> suitable location of the files before creating the module?
Of course, I have to check the proper urls it before creating anything.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
-- 
http://www.ousia.tk

Mojca Miklavec

10:30 p.m.

Dear Pablo, On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...

how can I add the *.icc files into tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in $wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter. If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs about using the profiles :) Mojca

Pablo Rodriguez

28 Aug 28 Aug

7:53 a.m.

On 08/27/2017 10:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

Dear Pablo,

On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...
how can I add the *.icc files into tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in $wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter.

Sorry for asking the most basic questions, Mojca. I never made a module in ConTeXt and the task isn’t obvious to me. I have to include the profiles in $context/tex/texmf-modules/colors/icc and documentation in $context/tex/texmf-modules/doc/context/third/icc-profiles/. Is there any documentation on how to create a module? I read something in the wiki, but it was all about namespaces and I think they aren’t required here.

...

If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs about using the profiles :)

With the documentation, I may write a simple README.md file and include a directory with examples (from the wiki ;-)). Many thanks for your help, Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

Mojca Miklavec

9:05 a.m.

On 28 August 2017 at 07:53, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...

On 08/27/2017 10:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...
Dear Pablo,

On 27 August 2017 at 22:23, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

...
how can I add the *.icc files into tex/texmf-context/colors/icc/? Is this allowed for a module?

They would end up in $wherever/texmf-modules rather than in $wherever/texmf-context, but that should not matter.

Sorry for asking the most basic questions, Mojca. I never made a module in ConTeXt and the task isn’t obvious to me.

I have to include the profiles in $context/tex/texmf-modules/colors/icc and documentation in $context/tex/texmf-modules/doc/context/third/icc-profiles/.

No. In case you want the mentioned paths you would probably use colors/icc/<name-of-your-module> doc/context/third/t-<name-of-your-module>

...

Is there any documentation on how to create a module?

I read something in the wiki, but it was all about namespaces and I think they aren’t required here.

I leave that to others.

...

...
If you prepare the module, you might want to include some simple docs about using the profiles :)

With the documentation, I may write a simple README.md file and include a directory with examples (from the wiki ;-)).

It's often helpful to have a tex document with the generated pdf, so that users can also see the effect (picture is worth thousand words) and have a working tex source they can modify, but a plain text (or markdown) should be acceptable. Mojca

Henning Hraban Ramm

10:03 a.m.

Hi, just wanted to say THANK YOU for finally tackling that issue! I want PDF/X etc. myself but always postponed it... Greetlings, Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net http://wiki.contextgarden.net GPG Key ID 1C9B22FD

luigi scarso

10:37 a.m.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

Hi, just wanted to say THANK YOU for finally tackling that issue! I want PDF/X etc. myself but always postponed it...

One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user. It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing (wrong profile for the medium) or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a profile A, and the document has a color with different profile B, perhaps in an image). On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong pdf", perhaps showing the result from a bugged validator (all already happen, in several situations). The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues. -- luigi

Henning Hraban Ramm

2:53 p.m.

Am 2017-08-28 um 10:37 schrieb luigi scarso :

...

One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user. It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing (wrong profile for the medium) or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a profile A, and the document has a color with different profile B, perhaps in an image). On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong pdf", perhaps showing the result from a bugged validator (all already happen, in several situations).

The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues.

Ok, I’ll reserve a timeslot for PDF/(X/A/UA) discussion. Greetlings, Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net http://wiki.contextgarden.net GPG Key ID 1C9B22FD

Pablo Rodriguez

4:14 p.m.

On 08/28/2017 02:53 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

Am 2017-08-28 um 10:37 schrieb luigi scarso :

...
One of the reason to not include a color profile in the standard distribution is that it's an advanced topic, a field for an advanced user. It's quite easy to make pdf that looks ok, but are not ok for printing (wrong profile for the medium) or are invalid (it can happen if the pdf has an output intent with a profile A, and the document has a color with different profile B, perhaps in an image). On average the casual user will complain saying "ConTeXt makes wrong pdf", perhaps showing the result from a bugged validator (all already happen, in several situations).

The context meeting is the best place to talk of all these issues.

Ok, I’ll reserve a timeslot for PDF/(X/A/UA) discussion.

Unfortunately, I cannot attend the meeting. I’m not especially interesting in doing the thing myself, but I want to be able to use it. BTW, Luigi, not including the profiles doesn’t prevent people messing things, since they aren’t included and complaints had taken place. Of course, I would be very interested in the results from the discussions in the next meeting. Pablo -- http://www.ousia.tk

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Hans Hagen
Henning Hraban Ramm
luigi scarso
Mojca Miklavec
Pablo Rodriguez
Peter Rolf

ICC profiles in the ConTeXt Suite?

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