Architecture Sketch

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{Spam?} Degree of MKII isolation...

Suno Ano

15 Apr 2008 15 Apr '08

7:24 a.m.

hi folks, I am new to ConTeXt. I had been a TeXinfo, Muse and LaTeX boy so far. Now that I am into ConTeXt for the 2nd day it came to my attention that there is for eample MkIV, luatex etc. How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds? Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am just making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am totally new to this whole subject so ...) What I want is to write documents (papers, manual, theses, etc.) with ConTeXt. So, is the time I am going to invest into learning and toying around with ConTeXt a secure investment of my time or not i.e. ConTeXt will be phased out or something (again, asking this might actually make me look goofy :-) tia for enlightening me!

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luigi scarso

15 Apr 15 Apr

8:38 a.m.

...

hi folks, How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds? luatex <==> tex context <==> latex ok ?

Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am just making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am totally new to this whole subject so ...) a bit here and there, but not all

What I want is to write documents (papers, manual, theses, etc.) with ConTeXt. ok, this is the right mailling list So, is the time I am going to invest into learning and toying around with ConTeXt a secure investment of my time or not i.e. ConTeXt will be phased out or something (again, asking this might actually make me look goofy :-) see wiki , mailling list,

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Suno Ano wrote: pragma site, source code. Always make short examples of your problem . And use linux. -- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

Idris Samawi Hamid

8:44 a.m.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso wrote:

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And use linux.

Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format problems :-D Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

John Devereux

9:32 a.m.

"Idris Samawi Hamid" writes:

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On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso wrote:

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And use linux.

Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format problems :-D

And I suspect these two facts are related.. :) Nevertheless, I have used both and find the linux environment better in general. Everything is "there" and my distribution (debian) takes care of things. Sometimes I am impatient and want to "experiment" with the latest and greatest, bypassing the distributions packaging system. Then I get into trouble. -- John Devereux

luigi scarso

9:58 a.m.

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And I suspect these two facts are related.. :) no, taco is on linux (well, i hope..)

Nevertheless, I have used both and find the linux environment better in general. Everything is "there" and my distribution (debian) takes care of things. Sometimes I am impatient and want to "experiment" with the latest and greatest, bypassing the distributions packaging system. Then I get into trouble. indeed , not me. Always follow carefully instructions.

-- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

Hans Hagen

10:02 a.m.

John Devereux wrote:

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"Idris Samawi Hamid" writes:

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On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso wrote:

...
And use linux. Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format problems :-D

And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)

well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet multiple new formats per day ... the main ingredients for a working set up are: TEXMF, TEXMFCNF and sometimes TEXMFCACHE (keep in mind that traditional tex distribiutions can have hard coded paths and assumptions) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

John Devereux

10:23 a.m.

Hans Hagen writes:

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John Devereux wrote:

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"Idris Samawi Hamid" writes:

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On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:38:20 -0600, luigi scarso wrote:

...
And use linux. Well Hans, the lead developer uses windows ;-) and from the messages I see on this list the linux people tend to run into more installation/format problems :-D

And I suspect these two facts are related.. :)

well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet multiple new formats per day ...

I am only teasing. I love context, and have been using it for years now on linux. But I only get to use it intermittently, and only rarely get involved with the installation itself...

...

the main ingredients for a working set up are: TEXMF, TEXMFCNF and sometimes TEXMFCACHE (keep in mind that traditional tex distribiutions can have hard coded paths and assumptions)

...so I forget the mechanics of how tex is configured and how it finds everything. Thanks, -- John Devereux

Arthur Reutenauer

5:50 p.m.

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well, luatex/mkiv runs happily on our linux servers; my development machine runs vista, and taco's runs linux and we happily generatet multiple new formats per day ...

... and Mark IV has been successfully run on Sparc Solaris and Sparc Linux as well ;-) Arthur

Suno Ano

10:47 a.m.

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| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:38:20 +0200, | luigi scarso | who can be reached at: luigi.scarso@gmail.com | (whose comments are cited below with " luigi> "), | had this to say in article | in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context | concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch | (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

...

...
hi folks, How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds? Luatex <==> tex context <==> latex luigi> ok ? nope, I do not get it especially for the latex part. What about this:

...

...
Secondly, now that it seems MkIV is the new star will all my ConTeXt knowledge be obsolete once luatex is going to be used? (Maybe I am just making a fool out of myself even asking this but then I am totally new to this whole subject so ...) luigi> A bit here and there, but not all

Which tells me exactly nothing :-) Actually to rephrase what I meant and to what it boils down: ,----[ Question ] | What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great | documents using ConTeXt? `---- If someone could shed some light onto this, I would be very thankful ... For the rest - I took a look at the wiki, ml etc. but those could not answer my question -- usually I try another approach after 2 hours searching around - yes, I am with Linux (DebianGNU/Linux) - GNU Emacs - my adorable cat :-) - a whole pile of ConTeXt manuals to read

Hans Hagen

11:18 a.m.

Suno Ano wrote:

...

...
| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:38:20 +0200, | luigi scarso | who can be reached at: luigi.scarso@gmail.com | (whose comments are cited below with " luigi> "), | had this to say in article | in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context | concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch | (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

...
...
hi folks, How do they fit together? Is there some sort of architecure chart somewhere so newbies can get a hold within a few seconds? Luatex <==> tex context <==> latex luigi> ok ? nope, I do not get it especially for the latex part. What about this:

+--------------------------+ | ConTeXt, used for | | creating the source | | files to luatex | +--------------------------+ ^ | | | | | +--------------------------+ | luatex, a bunch of | | libraries and whatnot | | which is going to replace| | pdfTeX | | | +--------------------------+

So where do LaTeX and MkIV fit into this?

pdftex, xetex, luatex: engines context mkii: pdftex/xetex context mkiv: luatex

...

Which tells me exactly nothing :-) Actually to rephrase what I meant and to what it boils down:

no need to discard old knowledge ... there will be new mkiv-only features, some hacks will go away

...

,----[ Question ] | What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great | documents using ConTeXt? `----

If someone could shed some light onto this, I would be very thankful ...

just see mkiv as a next version; the reason for calling it mkiv is that context never had fundamental versions, like latex (original, 2e, 3) in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ... ... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve morse cd's in loop mode ... ... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there will be a context mkvii -) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

luigi scarso

11:28 a.m.

...

in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...

... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve morse cd's in loop mode ...

... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there will be a context mkvii -)

to wikify . -- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

Olivier Guéry

11:35 a.m.

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM, luigi scarso wrote:

...

...
in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...

... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve morse cd's in loop mode ...

... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there will be a context mkvii -)

to wikify .

Deep Purple… this Deep Purple : http://youtube.com/watch?v=8sEYIouqEdU ;o) ? To wikify of course. Thank's to DP for being with you all this hours of great code. Olivier. -- [Message tapé sur un clavier Bépo : http://www.clavier-dvorak.org ] Olivier nemolivier@gmail.com http://nemolivier.blogspot.com

Hans Hagen

11:47 a.m.

Olivier Guéry wrote:

...

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 7:28 PM, luigi scarso wrote:

...
...
in order to prevent users asking "hey, there will be latex 3, when will there be acontext 3" i skipped the 3 and went for the 4 ...

... the mark part was inspired by deep purple using mk as tag for each new combination (which got my attention when i found out that steve morse was part of mk7 onwards, and the first code i wrote was with steve morse cd's in loop mode ...

... so now everyone knows why context mkiv is called mkiv; and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's; and i'm not that no sure if there will be a context mkvii -)

to wikify .

Deep Purple… this Deep Purple : http://youtube.com/watch?v=8sEYIouqEdU ;o) ? To wikify of course. Thank's to DP for being with you all this hours of great code.

haha, i didn't know that one -) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Andrea Valle

2:55 p.m.

...

...
and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's;

Oh, Hans, this is a big issue... I thought that while writing ConTeXt you (the Speed King of TeX, indeed) had thought about the motto following -exactly- "Speed King": "just a few roots, replanted". :) Best -a- -------------------------------------------------- Andrea Valle -------------------------------------------------- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> andrea.valle@unito.it -------------------------------------------------- " Think of it as seasoning . noise [salt] is boring . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty " (Ken Perlin on noise)

Hans Hagen

3:12 p.m.

Andrea Valle wrote:

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...
...
and yes, i only have DP mkvii/mkviii cd's/dvd's;

Oh, Hans, this is a big issue... I thought that while writing ConTeXt you (the Speed King of TeX, indeed) had thought about the motto following -exactly- "Speed King": "just a few roots, replanted".

well, often when writing tex code i feel more Like a Blind Man -) anyhow, at some point i did realize that mkiv would have some Major Impact - two nice cd's - (i wonder if users can deduce from the code what i was listening too, which is quite a broad spectrum ... for instance Canto Ostinato may lead to nice metapost graphics and i'm sure that my best code boils up while listening to Laughing Stock) Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Suno Ano

12:17 p.m.

...

| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:18:43 +0200, | Hans Hagen | who can be reached at: pragma@wxs.nl | (whose comments are cited below with " Hans> "), | had this to say in article <4804E373.4070603@wxs.nl> | in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context | concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch | (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> <87tzi3rrns.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

Hans> Just see mkiv as a next version Thanks, that answers my question.

luigi scarso

11:37 a.m.

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,----[ Question ] | What will happen to folks like me who just need/want to write great | documents using ConTeXt? `----

it depends: i get fat, for example.

...

- yes, I am with Linux (DebianGNU/Linux) hey , like me! - GNU Emacs also me - my adorable cat :-) two little daughter (and wife, of course) - a whole pile of ConTeXt manuals to read me again !

75% ! -- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

Martin Schröder

1:26 p.m.

2008/4/15, Suno Ano :

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So where do LaTeX and MkIV fit into this?

For LaTeX ask the LaTeX team. Maybe they have realized that luatex exists, although I doubt it. :-) Best Martin (SCNR)

Jean Magnan de Bornier

10:09 a.m.

Le 15 avril à 15:24:19 Suno Ano écrit notamment: | hi folks, | I am new to ConTeXt. I had been a TeXinfo, Muse ... Hi, You can still be a Muse boy with context: http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_and_emacs-muse (I have to edit a bit this page but it is quite enough for a muse user to see what can be done) -- Jean

Suno Ano

10:52 a.m.

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| On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:09:09 +0200, | Jean Magnan de Bornier | who can be reached at: jm.bornier@free.fr | (whose comments are cited below with " Jean> "), | had this to say in article <874pa3aymy.fsf@bornier.net> | in newsgroups gmane.comp.tex.context | concerning the subject of Re: Architecture Sketch | (see <87abjvxncs.fsf@googlemail.com> for more details)

Jean> You can still be a Muse boy with context: Jean> http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_and_emacs-muse Of course I will remain a Muse fanboy as well. Muse for my website, texinfo for all FLOSS (Free/Libre Open Source Software) manuals etc. and ConTeXt for a book and tech papers I am going to write ...

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participants (10)

Andrea Valle
Arthur Reutenauer
Hans Hagen
Idris Samawi Hamid
Jean Magnan de Bornier
John Devereux
luigi scarso
Martin Schröder
Olivier Guéry
Suno Ano