Sorry if this is a double post; I sent this message on Friday, and I think it somehow got lost.
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up. Best Thomas
Hi Thomas,
"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up.
Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in testing/suggesting things.
I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon, because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small Arabic critical editions in it.
Best Idris
At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Thomas,
"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main question was whether the functionality of edmac could be implemented in context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up.
Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in testing/suggesting things.
I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon, because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small Arabic critical editions in it.
if i'm right, you have somewhere:
\input page-nnt \input core-nnt \input core-lnt
(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in footnotes and so)
Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Tuesday, September 23, 2003, at 05:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
if i'm right, you have somewhere:
\input page-nnt \input core-nnt \input core-lnt
(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in footnotes and so)
hmmm, is this part of the distribution? Couldn't find anything that looks like page-nnt etc.
OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist asking again.
I found this in m-arabtex.tex: % \pushmacro\edmacloaded \let \edmacloaded \undefined
and later
% \popmacro\edmacloaded
Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if
The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:
1. Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead of counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on the same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very sloppy to achieve this
2. Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the reference.
3. Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line numbers.
4. Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more than one column.
5. Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than one set of notes referring to the same passage.
Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a good starting point.
I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer to core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these files.
Best
Thomas
Example what should be possible:
1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents. 2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical 3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used 4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They recognise 5 the use of . One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken into lines 6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.
1 manual A: handbook B 2 name A: concept B,C typographical A: computational B, euphoric C 4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)
On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Thomas,
"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange
about
the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the
main
question was whether the functionality of edmac could be
implemented in
context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up.
Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in testing/suggesting things.
I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon, because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small Arabic critical editions in it.
if i'm right, you have somewhere:
\input page-nnt \input core-nnt \input core-lnt
(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in footnotes and so)
Hans
Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist asking again.
I found this in m-arabtex.tex: % \pushmacro\edmacloaded \let \edmacloaded \undefined
and later
% \popmacro\edmacloaded
Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if
i talked with Klaus Lagally at eurotex and he will make arabtex a bit more context friendly: a few more hooks, context aware loading, etc
he will also look into the recent problems (may hav eto do with loading heberw (no longer needed, part of arabtex kernel)
Hans
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?
Thomas On Mar 13, 2005, at 11:49 PM, h h extern wrote:
i talked with Klaus Lagally at eurotex and he will make arabtex a bit more context friendly: a few more hooks, context aware loading, etc
he will also look into the recent problems (may hav eto do with loading heberw (no longer needed, part of arabtex kernel)
Hans
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:30:38 +0100, Thomas A.Schmitz thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de wrote:
Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?
I actually considered that. During my own pre-ConTeXt work I dived deep into the EDMAC code and made changes so that I could do real 100% right-to-left critical editions. EDMAC has its own OTR, however, which makes it difficult to merely plug it in to ConTeXt or even LaTeX (though there has been a recent port to LaTeX).
As soon as I finish my present book project this month (I'm really behind-<) I'll be working on the critical edition business as well (I have to finish a critical edition for Springer Verlag (formerly Kluwer) this spring); maybe we can share notes and bother Hans together;-)
Idris
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:30:38 +0100, Thomas A.Schmitz thomas.schmitz@uni-bonn.de wrote:
Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?
I actually considered that. During my own pre-ConTeXt work I dived deep into the EDMAC code and made changes so that I could do real 100% right-to-left critical editions. EDMAC has its own OTR, however, which makes it difficult to merely plug it in to ConTeXt or even LaTeX (though there has been a recent port to LaTeX).
As soon as I finish my present book project this month (I'm really behind-<) I'll be working on the critical edition business as well (I have to finish a critical edition for Springer Verlag (formerly Kluwer) this spring); maybe we can share notes and bother Hans together;-)
sounds ok to me; also keep in mind that much of what you want is already there!
Hans
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
Thanks Hans, but it's primarily edmac that I'm interested in, not arabtex. Could the edmac macros just be part of a Context module?
not so much edmac, but similar functionality; as idris suggests: just provide a request for functionality + examples; think about what you want in context (or your docs) and not so much of what edmac does. (thinsg like configurable footnotes are already there)
Hans
----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, hit the "send" button by accident.
OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist asking again.
I found this in m-arabtex.tex: % \pushmacro\edmacloaded \let \edmacloaded \undefined
and later
% \popmacro\edmacloaded
Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if edmac will work with ConTeXt "out of the box."
The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:
1. Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead of counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on the same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very sloppy to achieve this
2. Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the reference.
3. Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line numbers.
4. Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more than one column.
5. Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than one set of notes referring to the same passage.
Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a good starting point.
I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer to core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these files.
Best
Thomas
Example what should be possible:
1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents. 2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical 3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used 4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They recognise 5 the use of . One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken into lines 6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.
1 manual A: handbook B 2 name A: concept B,C typographical A: computational B, euphoric C 4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)
On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Thomas,
"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange
about
the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the
main
question was whether the functionality of edmac could be
implemented in
context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up.
Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in testing/suggesting things.
I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon, because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small Arabic critical editions in it.
if i'm right, you have somewhere:
\input page-nnt \input core-nnt \input core-lnt
(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in footnotes and so)
Hans
Thomas A.Schmitz wrote:
Sorry, hit the "send" button by accident.
OK, I feel guilty resurrecting this stale thread, but I can't resist asking again.
I found this in m-arabtex.tex: % \pushmacro\edmacloaded \let \edmacloaded \undefined
and later
% \popmacro\edmacloaded
Both lines are commented out, so I'm still wondering if edmac will work with ConTeXt "out of the box."
The absolute basics that are needed for critical editions are:
- Capability to have footnotes with reference to line-number instead of
counter. These notes must not end with a newline character (see ASCII-art at end of post), but must provide the possibility to have several on one line. These notes must not flow, they have to stay on the same page as the reference. Horizontal tolerance can be set to very sloppy to achieve this
Must be possible to apply a format like \bf vel. sim. to the reference.
Within these notes, it should be possible to refer to other line
numbers.
- Nice, but not quite essential: possibility to have notes in more than
one column.
- Not absolutely basic, but important for serious work: have more than
one set of notes referring to the same passage.
Is this possible in ConTeXt "out of the box"? If not, I'd be willing to roll up my sleeves and help, but would like to know which would be a good starting point.
I looked at core-ltn.tex. I'm not sure if core-nnt and page-nnt refer to core-not and page-not; I couldn't find anything appropriate in these files.
the files are in the main distribution for some time; i'm still waiting for idris to test them; following is my test file (seems that it has a patch -)
% interface=en
\unprotect
\def\dohandlelinenote#1#2#3% {\bgroup \expanded{\beforesplitstring#2}\at--\to\linenotelinenumber \ifnum\linenotelinenumber=\linenumber\relax \def\linenotelinenumber##1{#2}% \setupnote[#1] [\c!numbercommand=\linenotelinenumber, \c!textcommand=\gobbleoneargument]% \setnote[#1]{#3}% \fi \egroup}
\protect
\starttext
\tracelinenotestrue
\setuppapersize[S6][S6] \setuplayout[width=middle,height=middle,margin=1.5cm,footer=0pt,header=1cm]
\setupcolors[state=start] \setuptyping[option=color]
\definelinenote[extralinenote][rule=off,frame=on,framecolor=darkgreen] \setuplinenote [linenote] [rule=off,frame=on,framecolor=darkred,n=2]
\showframe
\startbuffer[test] \doglobal\increment\DummyNumber % else dups due to reuse \startlinenumbering[100] test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test test \startlinenote [well:\DummyNumber] {oeps} test test test test test test test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test test \extralinenote {oeps} test test test test test test test \linenote {oeps} test test test test test test test \extralinenote {oeps} test test test test test test test \stoplinenote [well] test test test test test test \stoplinenumbering \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[test] \getbuffer[test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [align=left] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [width=1em, align=left] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [width=2em, distance=.5em, align=left] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [width=2em, align=middle] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [conversion=romannumerals, start=1, step=1, location=text, style=slanted, color=blue, width=1.5em] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \startnarrower\getbuffer[setup,test]\stopnarrower} \page
\startbuffer[setup] \setuplinenumbering [width=4em, left=--, right=--, align=middle] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup] \getbuffer[setup,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup-1] \setuplinenumbering [style=\bfxx, command=\WatchThis] \stopbuffer
\startbuffer[setup-2] \def\WatchThis#1% {\ifodd\linenumber \definecolor[linecolor][red]% \else \definecolor[linecolor][green]% \fi \inframed [offset=1pt,frame=off,background=color,backgroundcolor=linecolor] {#1}} \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup-1,setup-2] \getbuffer[setup-1,setup-2,test]} \page
\startbuffer[setup-1] \setuplinenumbering [location=inright, style=\bfxx, command=\WatchThis] \stopbuffer
{\typebuffer[setup-1] \getbuffer[setup-1,setup-2,test]} \page
\stoptext
Best
Thomas
Example what should be possible:
1 This manual is about ConTEXt, a system for typesetting documents. 2 Central element in this name is the word TEX because the typographical 3 programming language TEX is the base for ConTEXt. People who are used 4 to TEX will probably identify this manual as a TEX document. They recognise 5 the use of . One may also notice that the way pararaphs are broken into lines 6 is often better than in the avarage typesetting system.
1 manual A: handbook B 2 name A: concept B,C typographical A: computational B, euphoric C 4 manual A: handbook B (as in l. 1)
On Sep 23, 2003, at 5:46 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:
At 09:12 23/09/2003 -0600, you wrote:
Hi Thomas,
"Thomas A.Schmitz" wrote:
In March/April 2002, Hans and Idris had an interesting exchange about the topic "critical editions in context" here in ntg-context; the main question was whether the functionality of edmac could be
implemented in
context. I'd be curious to know whether anything came out of it, I couldn't find any follow-up.
Hans has already done some preliminary work in this direction. I could not completely test it because the implementations used hooks from e-TeX. Now that eOmega/Aleph is available I will be able to be a bit more proactive in testing/suggesting things.
I don't remember if Hans added the xperimental stuff for critical editions to the latest beta. But I'm going to have to start testing this stuff soon, because the next issue of our journal is supposed to have a couple of small Arabic critical editions in it.
if i'm right, you have somewhere:
\input page-nnt \input core-nnt \input core-lnt
(multiple footnote classes, arbitrary footnote placement, line refs in footnotes and so)
Hans
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