On 3/5/2020 10:12 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

...

Dear List,

\starttext \startformula \left(f\right)'' = f'' \stopformula \stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live as well as in my slightly older version. What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative? you have to turn on

\setupmathematics   [collapsing=3] i'll default to collapsing=1

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:36 PM Aditya Mahajan wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:

...

On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote:

...

Dear List,

\starttext \startformula \left(f\right)'' = f'' \stopformula \stoptext

has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live as well as in my slightly older version. What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative? you have to turn on

\setupmathematics [collapsing=3]

but it has the side effect of also collapsing more:

$x'' >= 10$

(which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default)

i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only

(btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th eorriginal approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or raised in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to multiple scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode characters but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then introduces some size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)

So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?

Aditya___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

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___________________________________________________________________________________

And what is the way if one also want indices: $f''_{xx}$ or $f_{xx}''$ or ... ? I want the indices under the primes /Mikael

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 6:34 PM Hans Hagen wrote:

On 3/5/2020 5:41 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 5:36 PM Aditya Mahajan mailto:adityam@umich.edu> wrote:

On Thu, 5 Mar 2020, Hans Hagen wrote:

> On 3/4/2020 11:44 PM, Weber, Matthias wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> \starttext >> \startformula >> \left(f\right)'' = f'' >> \stopformula >> \stoptext >> >> has the second apostrophe set too low. This is in MKIV on ConTeXt live as > well as in my slightly older version. >> What is the “right” way to typeset a second derivative? > you have to turn on > > \setupmathematics > [collapsing=3] > > but it has the side effect of also collapsing more: > > $x'' >= 10$ > > (which is why the mechanism is currently turned off by default) > > i'll think about an option that only does some specific ones only > > (btw, i love tex but these primes are a bit painful due to th eorriginal > approach which has lead mixtures of (1) raised in the font and/or raised > in the engine, (2) them being superscripts but not really, (3) fonts > therefore doing it inconsistently, (4) some parsing related to multiple > scripts, (5) double, tripple, etc primes being real unicode characters > but spaced singles in traditional tex (which itself then introduces some > size juggling) ... i could proabbly write a few pages about it)

So what's the best way to input them: using \prime, \prime\prime, etc.?

Aditya___________________________________________________________________________________

...

If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net

___________________________________________________________________________________

...

And what is the way if one also want indices:

$f''_{xx}$ or $f_{xx}''$ or ... ?

I want the indices under the primes

did you try with

\setupmathematics [collapsing=1]

both work but (i'm no mathematician) i'd opt for

$f_{xx}''$

as it says take the second something from f_{whatever} unless of course the index applies the second something

But i bet that Aditya can give the real answer.

Hans

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Oh, I had not. It looks better with collapsing=1, indeed. A few neq questions comes to me: Does ConTeXt not use the same prime character as in TeX/LaTeX? Or has something changed in latin modern? See the attached pdf files (derivatives.pdf from ConTeXt and primetime-crop.pdf from lualatex). The prime character looks more slanted in ConTeXt. It also almost looks like it is cut horizontally at the bottom of the character. Also, the space between the two x in the subscript looks a bit large to me. Is that easily tuned? /Mikael The ConTeXt file: \starttext \startTEXpage[offset=1bp] \setupmathematics[collapsing=1] $f_{xx}''$ \stopTEXpage \stoptext The LaTeX file: \documentclass{article} \usepackage{lmodern} \pagestyle{empty} \begin{document} $f_{xx}''$ \end{document}

On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 9:09 PM Wolfgang Schuster < wolfgang.schuster.lists@gmail.com> wrote:

Mikael P. Sundqvist schrieb am 05.03.2020 um 20:48:

Oh, I had not. It looks better with collapsing=1, indeed. A few neq questions comes to me:

Does ConTeXt not use the same prime character as in TeX/LaTeX? Or has something changed in latin modern? See the attached pdf files (derivatives.pdf from ConTeXt and primetime-crop.pdf from lualatex). The prime character looks more slanted in ConTeXt. It also almost looks like it is cut horizontally at the bottom of the character. Also, the space between the two x in the subscript looks a bit large to me. Is that easily tuned?

ConTeXt uses the OpenType version of the Latin Modern math font while your LaTeX file uses the older Type1 version of the font which uses multiple files for the different sizes. You can see this when look into the document information which can be done with your PDF viewer (or a command line tool like pdffonts).

Wolfgang

Thanks! That was sloppy of me not to check in the pdf before sending. I attach the correct file generated by lualatex for others. Indeed, the primes are "cut off" horizontally, but perhaps that is a choice of design. The question regarding spaces in the subscript remains. /Mikael