On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

Joel C. Salomon wrote:

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On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 4:22 PM, Hans Hagen wrote:

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luatex + context mkiv is indeed independent [of Ruby]

- index sorting takes place in mkiv - job control is done with mtxrun/mtx-context

Now that I've been told the idea is at least possible, I've been thinking about how to generate a micro-minimal mkiv distribution: no fonts except the LM set, no engines except luaTeX, no kpathsea, & preferably no external dependencies (perl, ruby, &c.).

So how to best go about this? I'm downloading the current minimals (or should I use the .zips at http://www.pragma-ade.nl/download-1.htm?); what can I cut out?

use the minimals from the garden .. the zips will go away (apart from the cont-* zips)

one option is to write a dedicated fetch script, load the minimals for luatex use only (is an option) and then look at the files you need

i wonder if it's worth the trouble because all you get extra on top of lm is tex gyre open type

There are many other OpenType fonts that get fetched by default as well. And maybe the whole bin/common can be left out in that case (maybe windows still needs some libraries). So there is still some space that could be saved. Mojca

See my reply to Hans (about five minutes before this message); it's complexity of installation and options, not disc usage, that I'm trying to minimize. A bit off-topic: mayb we can also think a context-live iso img.

-- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 4:32 PM, luigi scarso wrote:

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See my reply to Hans (about five minutes before this message); it's complexity of installation and options, not disc usage, that I'm trying to minimize. A bit off-topic: mayb we can also think a context-live iso img.

I have already done it once (perl and ruby added to the CD, and formats generated), and one could be prepared at/for the conference. However, I have no idea how sensible the formats are (if you prepare a live CD with slightly different versions of pdfTeX for different platforms - probably that's not going to work?) And luatex should then put its cache into temp. What about an image to run with a virtual machine ?

Mojca

PS: but the main problem with CD is that you cannot update it, so it probably gets old before you even manage to burn it

Are you sure ? pdftex is frozen (almost), . I have a production with a context 4 years old. Context (in some...contexts) stay pretty young. -- luigi it's new . it's powerful . it's luatex . http://www.luatex.org

Hi,

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What about an image to run with a virtual machine ?

Much better.

But also much bigger. Having an ubuntu/context (vmware) image is not hard to create, but it will take something like 2 gig. Nice idea, though. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Hi,

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But also much bigger. Having an ubuntu/context (vmware) image is not hard to create, but it will take something like 2 gig. Nice idea, though.

What about this http://www.rpath.com/rbuilder

Not sure what rpath really is, but I can't see where it could help. I thought about creating a minimal ubuntu/gnome desktop vm with TeX installed. Installation is not the hard part, maintainig it is. But this might get off-topic!?!? Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

Hi,

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But also much bigger. Having an ubuntu/context (vmware) image is not hard to create, but it will take something like 2 gig. Nice idea, though.

so much?

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What about this http://www.rpath.com/rbuilder

Not sure what rpath really is, but I can't see where it could help. I thought about creating a minimal ubuntu/gnome desktop vm with TeX installed. Installation is not the hard part, maintainig it is.

indeed it involves some long term maintainance, esp once users start depending on it, but the idea of being able to run from say a memory stick has some appeal Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

Hello Hans,

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But also much bigger. Having an ubuntu/context (vmware) image is not hard to create, but it will take something like 2 gig. Nice idea, though. so much?

With a lot of effort one could cut it down a bit. The problem is that there is no way to get a minimal ubuntu/gnome desktop, only the regular one with all kinds of software (open office etc.) pre installed. You can remove this software, but I don't know how far to go. It takes some time experimenting. I've played around with this quite a bit and I always get about 2 gig of disk space. Without java, this could be 1.5 or so. Installing such a vm (vmware based) takes about 10-20 minutes, including all vmware hacks. So this is the smallest part.

aren't there those tiny linuxes of some 50 meg ? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

How about Morphix? http://www.morphix.org I made a disk for another purpose about a year ago, it is based on debian, and I don't think the system itself was more than some 100 Mb Johan 2008/5/25 Martin Schröder :

2008/5/25 Hans Hagen :

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aren't there those tiny linuxes of some 50 meg ?

Yes, but we want a standard debian-like system for making system updates easier. There have been efforts to create TeX-Linuxes; I remember a talk at a recent BachoTeX...

Best Martin ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

-- Johan Sandblom, MD PhD m +46735521477 Sweden "What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite" - Bertrand Russell

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"Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Hmm, Mojca> Guys, why don't you wait a bit more. In a not-so-distant-future Mojca> LuaTeX will ship with the whole operating system anyway. (Web Mojca> server is already there, print server and post script interpreter Mojca> not far away from being done, fonts are there, editor support may Mojca> come from Jonathan Kew, international support is there, login Mojca> mechanism is probably also hidden somewhere already [reading from Mojca> zip files and from web etc.] ...) Where can one find more about the above stuff or everything is sealed in some big box deep under the earth's surface? Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D ----------------------------------------------------------------

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"Hans" == Hans Hagen writes:

Hans> you can try to read our minds; mojca is very good in that -) Heh, this feature God marked as 'female-only' ;) Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D ----------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Gour wrote:

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"Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Hmm, Mojca> Guys, why don't you wait a bit more. In a not-so-distant-future Mojca> LuaTeX will ship with the whole operating system anyway. (Web Mojca> server is already there, print server and post script interpreter Mojca> not far away from being done, fonts are there, editor support may Mojca> come from Jonathan Kew, international support is there, login Mojca> mechanism is probably also hidden somewhere already [reading from Mojca> zip files and from web etc.] ...)

Where can one find more about the above stuff or everything is sealed in some big box deep under the earth's surface?

It was a joke ... I hope. But you can always consult about details in Bohinj :) Mojca

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:43 AM, Gour wrote:

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> "Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Hmm, Mojca> Guys, why don't you wait a bit more. In a not-so-distant-future Mojca> LuaTeX will ship with the whole operating system anyway. (Web Mojca> server is already there, print server and post script interpreter Mojca> not far away from being done,

OPERATING SYSTEM Linux WEB SERVER http://www.keplerproject.org/ PRINT SERVER http://www.cups.org/ POSTSCRIPT INTERPRETER http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/ FONTS http://fontforge.sourceforge.net EDITOR emacs, scite, notepad++, vim,..... LANGUAGE ruby, python, perl, lua, cweb, pascal-web,.. The problem in maintenance. -- luigi

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"Mojca" == Mojca Miklavec writes:

Mojca> But you can always consult about details in Bohinj :) Well, I'm considering to visit for a few days...let's see. Last week-end we were in Logarska Dolina (na Rinki). Sincerely, Gour -- Gour | Zagreb, Croatia | GPG key: C6E7162D ----------------------------------------------------------------

On Sunday 25 May 2008 05:04:22 pm Hans Hagen wrote:

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

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Hello Hans,

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But also much bigger. Having an ubuntu/context (vmware) image is not hard to create, but it will take something like 2 gig. Nice idea, though.

so much?

With a lot of effort one could cut it down a bit. The problem is that there is no way to get a minimal ubuntu/gnome desktop, only the regular one with all kinds of software (open office etc.) pre installed. You can remove this software, but I don't know how far to go. It takes some time experimenting. I've played around with this quite a bit and I always get about 2 gig of disk space. Without java, this could be 1.5 or so. Installing such a vm (vmware based) takes about 10-20 minutes, including all vmware hacks. So this is the smallest part.

aren't there those tiny linuxes of some 50 meg ?

Hans

Slackware allows you to pick and choose which software you install. And a CDR variant, Slax, will run from a mini-cdr. There are other diminutive Linuxes. -- John Culleton Resources for every author and publisher: http://wexfordpress.com/tex/shortlist.pdf http://wexfordpress.com/tex/packagers.pdf http://www.creativemindspress.com/newbiefaq.htm http://www.gropenassoc.com/TopLevelPages/reference%20desk.htm

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 3:42 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

one option is to write a dedicated fetch script, load the minimals for luatex use only (is an option) and then look at the files you need

Any clues for how to go about this?

i wonder if it's worth the trouble because all you get extra on top of lm is tex gyre open type

I wasn't being dogmatic about cutting out all other fonts; just wanted to avoid the old TeX-style pfb/vfb/&c. messes. LM+Gyre is fine. What I have in mind is a small package with SciTE & the ultra-minimals, with a launcher like the portableapps.com programs have that will set the appropriate environment variables. Include SciTE or Notepad++ (with a stripped-down set of configuration files, perhaps; just enough for ConTeXt/lua/mp) and Sumatra PDF Portable, and you've got a complete, truly stand-alone, modern typesetting environment on a USB stick. --Joel

On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

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Any clues for how to go about this?

There are two options: 1.) take a look at first-setup.sh (really stupid script); you can call mtx-update with "--engine=luatex"

As opposed to "--engine=all"? Sounds good so far. But...

you still get pfb files as they are needed for math; and you get quite some helvetica/times enc/map/pfb files since px & tx math fonts need them (needed for gyre) - this will go away once gyre math is ready;

I suppose that a "legacy-free" TeX will have to wait a bit... Slight tangent: Is there any support for using any of the OpenType math fonts (I know of Cambria Math, STIX, and Asana Math—this last on tug.org) in mkiv?

2.) you can write your own set of rsync calls, like: <snip> See also: http://minimals.contextgarden.net/setup/context-installer/src/ you can then start from there.

Looking into it.

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What I have in mind is a small package with … a complete, truly stand-alone, modern typesetting environment on a USB stick.

If you're willing to work on it, just tell me what exactly you need (I can put different stuff on the garden).

Can't promise a lot of time, but it's something I need so I'll work on it. --Joel

On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:02 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

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Slight tangent: Is there any support for using any of the OpenType math fonts (I know of Cambria Math, STIX, and Asana Math—this last on tug.org) in mkiv?

cambria ... probably in the near future (as tex gyre will also have math and), since stix is type 1 and spread over many fonts, it will not be supported (that is: i will not make the typescripts for pdftex, but someoneelse may see it as a challenge)

So will Stix be supported in mkiv or ConTeXt+XeTeX? --Joel

Hans Hagen wrote:

Joel C. Salomon wrote:

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On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 3:02 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

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Slight tangent: Is there any support for using any of the OpenType math fonts (I know of Cambria Math, STIX, and Asana Math—this last on tug.org) in mkiv?

cambria ... probably in the near future (as tex gyre will also have math and), since stix is type 1 and spread over many fonts, it will not be supported (that is: i will not make the typescripts for pdftex, but someoneelse may see it as a challenge) So will Stix be supported in mkiv or ConTeXt+XeTeX?

quite probably not

You can read that as: It depends on whether the released version of the Stix fonts will be packaged in a predictable manner. It should either follow the cambria math example (otf, for mkiv) or the cm/ams example (pfb, for mkii) to make it work in context. From the beta program so far, neither seems to be likely to happen, but we will have to wait and see (some more). Best wishes, Taco