h h extern said this at Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:38:27 +0100:

...

Also, what's the status of contml? I like the idea of it as a simple, structural, basic markup that ConTeXt handles with zero effort, but is anyone actually using it?

we sometimes mix it into other xml docs; i have no problem with extending it; actualy, (see mag-0008.pdf), i want to map most context directly onto xml so that we have a rather complete xml input syntax

Yes, indeed. I took a look at the magazine again last night, and it was put in an entirely new light. I'm very curious to work with x-fx now... I've been working on a general-ish conversion script from a new Mac application. I'd like to offer most of ContML as basic level constructs, but it should be possible for a user to add their own tags. If they can tap into fx:anything tags, it should make people (hi, Bruce!) fairly happy. My first reaction/critique of the approach was: why not fix at least one of the problems of TeX: that it's "a mixture between typesetting and programming features" as you say? What I propose is clearly a debatable XML-design issue, but it seemed strange that fx:definelayout and fx:p were put into the same namespace. Why do the formatting definitions share the same (theoretical) schema as markup? Your documents keep these categories separate, as one would expect. Why not encourage people to put them in separate files, as with "normal" ConTeXt workflows? The designer and author are more clearly divorced when you don't assume an XSLT-centric flow, right? (or, is this already planned with this tidbit from foxet: fs = setup) I'm curious about how the namespacing would work, though, because I want to use (and enable the use of) these nice fs:setuphead -like configurations with my hybrid ContML++ documents. Will: correctly (in my mind) affect a ContML element like this? context:sectionsomething Curious, adam -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay, Computing Dept. atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Lancaster University, InfoLab21 +44(0)1524/510.514 Lancaster, LA1 4WA, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/510.492 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Bruce D'Arcus wrote:

BTW, Hans, I've yet to see the ContML schema. Care to post it somewhere?

that was from the time that i played with schema's, nowadays i prefer relax ng the funny <?context-block ?> things can be used by some modules (in the distribution) to filter definitions for documentation purposes; <?xml version="1.0"?> http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"> xsd:annotation This schema describes a class of presentations. The structure is (normally) reflected in the design. author: Hans Hagen, copyright: PRAGMA-ADE / Hasselt NL <?context-block begin definitions ?> <?context-block end definitions ?> <?context-block begin text ?> <?context-block end text ?> <?context-block begin p ?> <?context-block end p ?> <?context-block begin hide ?> <?context-block end hide ?> <?context-block begin em ?> <?context-block end em ?> <?context-block begin b ?> <?context-block end b ?> <?context-block begin quote ?> <?context-block end quote ?> <?context-block begin include ?> <?context-block end include ?> <?context-block begin compound ?> <?context-block end compound ?> <?context-block begin references ?> <?context-block end references ?> <?context-block begin unknown ?> <?context-block end unknown ?> <?context-block begin verbatim ?> <!-- string or anyType --> <?context-block end verbatim ?> <?context-block begin itemize ?> <?context-block end itemize ?> <?context-block begin fixed ?> xsd:all <?context-block end fixed ?> <?context-block begin float ?> xsd:all <?context-block end float ?> <?context-block begin externalfigure ?> <?context-block end externalfigure ?> <?context-block begin table ?> <!-- these elements inherit ConTeXt TABLE parameters --> <?context-block end table ?> <?context-block begin tabulate ?> xsd:sequence <?context-block end tabulate ?>  ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

Adam Lindsay wrote:

h h extern said this at Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:38:27 +0100:

...

...

Also, what's the status of contml? I like the idea of it as a simple, structural, basic markup that ConTeXt handles with zero effort, but is anyone actually using it?

we sometimes mix it into other xml docs; i have no problem with

extending it;

...

actualy, (see mag-0008.pdf), i want to map most context directly onto xml so that we have a rather complete xml input syntax

Yes, indeed. I took a look at the magazine again last night, and it was put in an entirely new light. I'm very curious to work with x-fx now...

see below

I've been working on a general-ish conversion script from a new Mac application. I'd like to offer most of ContML as basic level constructs, but it should be possible for a user to add their own tags. If they can tap into fx:anything tags, it should make people (hi, Bruce!) fairly happy.

My first reaction/critique of the approach was: why not fix at least one of the problems of TeX: that it's "a mixture between typesetting and programming features" as you say?

indeed, but, it al depends on the 'to be written' manuals then: - code in xml and then - use xslt to generate an (structured) instance that - calls templates that implement typographical solutions - using the xml interface to context in practice it means trading in some context funtionality by xslt functionality the interesting thing is that the whole machinery is still there

What I propose is clearly a debatable XML-design issue, but it seemed strange that fx:definelayout and fx:p were put into the same namespace. Why do the formatting definitions share the same (theoretical) schema as markup? Your documents keep these categories separate, as one would expect. Why not encourage people to put them in separate files, as with "normal" ConTeXt workflows? The designer and author are more clearly divorced when you don't assume an XSLT-centric flow, right? (or, is this already planned with this tidbit from foxet: fs = setup)

sure, definitions should become 'styles' but that's hard to demo in a magazine -) in principle it could also mean that one could predefine page masters and have multiple variants instead of the five-area-fo-thing

I'm curious about how the namespacing would work, though, because I want to use (and enable the use of) these nice fs:setuphead -like configurations with my hybrid ContML++ documents. Will:

context\high{fx}

correctly (in my mind) affect a ContML element like this? context:sectionsomething

indeed, or something a matter of taste; i'm open to any suggestion (more a discussion for the foxet list)

Curious,

well, here 's an <experimental/> version of x-fx. It demonstrates that it's relaively easy to map the context interface to xml; actually, if things get dirty i can provide a more low level context support which then makes the mapping clean -) %D \module %D [ file=x-fx, %D version=2004.11.12, %D title=\FOXET, %D subtitle=Style Processor, %D author=Hans Hagen, %D date=\currentdate, %D copyright={PRAGMA ADE / Hans Hagen \& Ton Otten}] %C %C This module is part of the \CONTEXT\ macro||package and is %C therefore copyrighted by \PRAGMA. See mreadme.pdf for %C details. \chardef\XMLtokensreduction = 2 \chardef\XMLcdatamethod = 2 \usemodule[mathml] \setupcolors[state=start] % these will be speed up by few step expansion \def\foxarguments {\theXMLarguments{fox}} \def\initializefox{\expanded{\getrawparameters[fox][\theXMLarguments{fox}]}} \def\foxaction #1{\expanded{#1[\theXMLarguments{fox}]}} % layers \defineXMLcommand [fx:definelayer] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\definelayer[\foxlabel]}% \expanded{\setuplayer[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:setuplayer] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setuplayer[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:setlayer] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setlayer[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}\bgroup\ignorespaces} {\removeunwantedspaces\egroup} \defineXMLcommand [fx:flushlayer] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \tightlayer[\foxlabel]} % framed \defineXMLenvironment [fx:framed] [fox] [] {\initializefox \expanded{\framed[\foxarguments]}\bgroup\ignorespaces} {\removeunwantedspaces\egroup} % layout \defineXMLcommand [fx:definelayout] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\definelayout[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:setuplayout] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setuplayout[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]} }% \expanded{\setuplayout[\foxlabel]}} % todo: only when no further arguments \defineXMLcommand [fx:enablelayout] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setuplayout[\foxlabel]}} % heads / we need a stupid, not list/ref variant \defineXMLcommand [fx:definehead] [fox] [label=default,level=1] {\initializefox \expanded{\definehead[fx:head:\foxlabel][section=section-\foxlevel,incrementnumber=no]}% \expanded{\setuphead[fx:head:\foxlabel][\foxarguments,alternative=command]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:setuphead] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setuphead[fx:head:\foxlabel][\foxarguments,alternative=command]}} \defineXMLenvironmentsave [fx:head] [fox] [label=default] {\bgroup} {\initializefox \expanded{\setuphead[fx:head:\foxlabel][\foxarguments,alternative=command]}% \getvalue{fx:head:\foxlabel}{\vbox{\forgetall\XMLflush{fx:head}}}% \egroup} % page \defineXMLcommand [fx:page] [fox] [command=yes] {\initializefox \expanded{\page[\foxcommand]}} % tabulate / todo: in context preamble also definable this way, then direct map \setuptabulate[before=,after=] \startsetups fox:tabulate \defineXMLenvironment [fx:preamble] {\scratchtoks\emptytoks} {\appendetoks|\to\scratchtoks} \defineXMLpickup [fx:tbody] {\expanded{\starttabulate[\the\scratchtoks]}} {\stoptabulate} \defineXMLcommand [fx:e] [fox] [width=,align=,type=line,style=] % line|paragraph {\initializefox \appendetoks|\to\scratchtoks \doifelse{\foxtype}{paragraph}{\appendetoks p\to\scratchtoks}{\appendetoks w\to\scratchtoks}% \doifsomething{\foxwidth}{\appendetoks(\foxwidth)\to\scratchtoks}% \appendetoks\XMLval{fox:tab:style}{\foxstyle}{}\to\scratchtoks \appendetoks\XMLval{fox:tab:align}{\foxalign}{}\to\scratchtoks} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:r] {} {\NC \NR} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:c] {\NC} {} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:tr] {} {\NC \NR} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:td] {\NC} {} \stopsetups \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:align} {flushleft} {l} \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:align} {flushright} {r} \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:align} {center} {c} \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:style} {italic} {I} \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:style} {bold} {B} \mapXMLvalue {fox:tab:style} {slanted} {S} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:tabulate] [fox] [] {} {} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:tabulate] [fox] [] {\bgroup \directsetup{fox:tabulate}} {\egroup} % itemize \defineXMLcommand [fx:defineitemize] [fox] [label=default] % maybe also \defineitemgroup as synonym {\initializefox \expanded{\defineitemgroup[\foxlabel]}% \expanded{\setupitemgroup[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:setupitemize] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\setupitemgroup[\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:itemize] [fox] [label=default] {\initializefox \expanded{\startitemgroup[\foxlabel]}\ignorespaces} {\stopitemgroup} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:item] [fox] [type=normal,symbol=] {\initializefox \XMLval{fox:item:type}{\foxtype}{normal}} {\par} \mapXMLvalue {fox:item:type} {normal} {\item} \mapXMLvalue {fox:item:type} {margin} {\mar{\foxsymbol}} \mapXMLvalue {fox:item:type} {symbol} {\sym{\foxsymbol}} % table % first last odd even row column header each <n> <m> \startsetups fox:table \defineXMLprocess [fx:preamble] \defineXMLcommand [fx:c] [fox] [r=each] {\initializefox\expanded{\setupTABLE[r][\foxr][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:r] [fox] [c=each] {\initializefox\expanded{\setupTABLE[c][\foxc][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:h] [fox] [c=each] {\initializefox\expanded{\setupTABLE[header][\foxc][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLcommand [fx:e] [fox] [type=,c=each,r=each] {\initializefox \doifelse{\foxtype}{row} {\expanded{\setupTABLE[r][\foxr][\foxarguments]}} {\doifelse{\foxtype}{column} {\expanded{\setupTABLE[c][\foxc][\foxarguments]}} {\expanded{\setupTABLE[\foxc][\foxr][\foxarguments]}}}} \defineXMLnested [fx:thead] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTABLEhead[\foxarguments]}} {\eTABLEhead} \defineXMLnested [fx:tfoot] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTABLEfoot[\foxarguments]}} {\eTABLEfoot} \defineXMLnested [fx:tnext] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTABLEnext[\foxarguments]}} {\eTABLEnext} \defineXMLnested [fx:tbody] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTABLEbody[\foxarguments]}} {\eTABLEbody} \defineXMLnested [fx:tr] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTR[\foxarguments]}} {\eTR} \defineXMLnested [fx:td] [fox] [] {\expanded{\bTD[\foxarguments]}} {\eTD} \stopsetups \defineXMLnested [fx:table] [fox] [] {\bgroup \directsetup{fox:table} \expanded{\bTABLE[\foxarguments]}} {\eTABLE \egroup} % misc \defineXMLenvironment [fx:narrower] [fox] [left=0em,right=0em] {\expanded{\setupnarrower[\foxarguments]}% \startnarrower[middle]} {\stopnarrower} \defineXMLenvironment [fx:text] [fox] [] {\starttext} {\stoptext} % paragraphs \newcount \paragraphdepth \defineXMLenvironment [fx:p] [fox] [strut=no] {\advance\paragraphdepth\plusone \initializefox \doifelse{\foxstrut}{yes} {\setvalue{fx:p:strut:\the\paragraphdepth}{1}} {\setvalue{fx:p:strut:\the\paragraphdepth}{0}}% \ifcase\getvalue{fx:p:strut:\the\paragraphdepth}\or\begstrut\fi} {\ifcase\getvalue{fx:p:strut:\the\paragraphdepth}\or\endstrut\fi \endgraf \advance\paragraphdepth\minusone} % fonts \def\startfont[#1]{\bgroup\getvalue{#1}} \def\stopfont {\egroup} \defineXMLcommand [fx:definefont] [fox] [label=fallbackfont,spec=lmtt10] % todo: more efficient (no spec/label in third arg) {\initializefox \expanded{\definefont[fx:font:\foxlabel][\foxspec][spec=,label=,\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLnested [fx:font] [fox] [label=fallbackfont] {\initializefox \startfont[fx:font:\foxlabel]} {\stopfont} % color \defineXMLcommand [fx:definecolor] [fox] [label=fallbackcolor] {\initializefox \expanded{\definecolor[fx:color:\foxlabel][\foxarguments]}} \defineXMLnested [fx:color] [fox] [label=fallbackfont] {\initializefox \startcolor[fx:color:\foxlabel]} {\stopcolor} % margin things \setupinmargin[style=,color=] \defineXMLargument [fx:margintext] [fox] [label=default] {\margintext} % so far \doifnotmode{demo}{\endinput} % test \startbuffer[demo] <!-- test layer --> Left Top Right Bottom fx:narrower A bit of text! A bit of text! A bit of text! A bit of text! <!-- chapter head --> fx:framed12 fx:framedThe Title <p>Some text!</p> fx:tabulate fx:preamble fx:body fx:trfx:tdtest 1fx:tdtest 2fx:tdtest 3fx:tdtest 4 fx:trfx:tdtest 11fx:tdtest 22fx:tdtest 33fx:tdtest 44 fx:trfx:tdtest 111fx:tdtest 222fx:tdtest 333fx:tdtest 444 fx:tabulate fx:preamble fx:tbody fx:trfx:tdtest 1fx:tdtest 2fx:tdtest 3fx:tdtest 4 fx:trfx:tdtest 11fx:tdtest 22fx:tdtest 33fx:tdtest 44 fx:trfx:tdtest 111fx:tdtest 222fx:tdtest 333fx:tdtest 444 fx:itemize fx:itemfirst fx:itemize fx:itemfirst second fx:itemthird second fx:itemthird fx:table fx:preamble fx:thead fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tbody fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc fx:tr fx:tda fx:tdb fx:tdc \stopbuffer \starttext \showframe \typebuffer[demo] \processXMLbuffer[demo] \relax \stoptext ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------