texfont and font mechanism

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Floats that extend into the margin?

Henning Hraban Ramm

17 Aug 2003 17 Aug '03

1:18 p.m.

Digging deep... ;-) While playing with some freeware fonts by apostrophic labs, shy fonts et al., I recognized some limitations of ConTeXt's (or TeX's?) font mechanism. I know this was discussed earlier, but I can't remember/find and answer. I've an overcomplete font family like: \definefontsynonym [Serif] [Covington] \definefontsynonym [SerifItalic] [Covington-Italic] \definefontsynonym [SerifSlanted] [Covington-Rev-Italic] \definefontsynonym [SerifCaps] [CovingtonSC] \definefontsynonym [SerifBold] [Covington-Bold] \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalic] [Covington-BoldItalic] \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlanted] [Covington-Rev-BoldItalic] \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldCaps] [CovingtonSC-Bold] \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldItalicCaps] [CovingtonSC-BoldItalic] \definefontsynonym [SerifItalicCaps] [CovingtonSC-Italic] \definefontsynonym [SerifBoldSlantedCaps] [CovingtonSC-Rev-BoldItalic] \definefontsynonym [SerifSlantedCaps] [CovingtonSC-Rev-Italic] You can see, there's SC for every normal font (okay, they're no real small caps, but the like). But I can't access them. There's not even a possibility to access bold caps, is it? Further, why there's only [OldStyle] instead [SerifOldStyle], [SerifBoldOldStyle] etc.? And why don't work these family options (Italics, Bold etc.) with handwriting style? (Some hand fonts have more than one style!) Next question: What does texfont's --expert switch do? Is there already any docs how to write VFs to use expert fonts? (Even for LaTeX, maybe I'd understand it anyway?) If I'd like to setup CE, Greek or Cyrillic fonts, what must I provide? Only an encoding? Is it possible with texfont? Regarding OpenType I'll first read Adam's MyWay. (More questions are in the queue...) Grüßlis vom Hraban! -- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

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John Culleton

17 Aug 17 Aug

3:25 p.m.

On Sunday 17 August 2003 09:18, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...

Digging deep... ;-)

While playing with some freeware fonts by apostrophic labs, shy fonts et al., I recognized some limitations of ConTeXt's (or TeX's?) font mechanism. I know this was discussed earlier, but I can't remember/find and answer.

The primitive \font statement would in fact enable one to use a hundred different variants if needed. But then they would have to be called individually in each instance of use. Context as a family of synonyms which allows for a finite number of different combinations. These could be used as the font names where applicable, which preserves the usual Context mechanisms for switching fonts for the usual cases. For the unusual case one would use the regular TeX font mechanism: font\foo foobar at 10pt \foo Text... ...and so on. I have felt for some time that the Context font mechanism required too much work for too little result. So I use it where feasable but don't feel guilty about dipping back into the \font mechanism where necessary, such as for a title page font. But I am only a (perpetual) novice... John Culleton

Hans Hagen

18 Aug 18 Aug

8:22 a.m.

At 11:25 17/08/2003 -0400, you wrote:

...

On Sunday 17 August 2003 09:18, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

...
Digging deep... ;-)

While playing with some freeware fonts by apostrophic labs, shy fonts et al., I recognized some limitations of ConTeXt's (or TeX's?) font mechanism. I know this was discussed earlier, but I can't remember/find and answer.

The primitive \font statement would in fact enable one to use a hundred different variants if needed. But then they would have to be called individually in each instance of use. Context as a family of synonyms which allows for a finite number of different combinations. These could be used as the font names where applicable, which preserves the usual Context mechanisms for switching fonts for the usual cases. For the unusual case one would use the regular TeX font mechanism:

font\foo foobar at 10pt

\foo Text...

...and so on.

I have felt for some time that the Context font mechanism required too much work for too little result. So I use it where feasable but don't feel guilty about dipping back into the \font mechanism where necessary, such as for a title page font.

But I am only a (perpetual) novice...

\definefont[MyFont][foobar at 10pt] \MyFont bla bla Hans ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE | pragma@wxs.nl Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: +31 (0)38 477 53 69 | fax: +31 (0)38 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- information: http://www.pragma-ade.com/roadmap.pdf documentation: http://www.pragma-ade.com/showcase.pdf -------------------------------------------------------------------------

Henning Hraban Ramm

8:44 p.m.

Am Sonntag, 17.08.03, um 17:25 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb John Culleton:

...

I have felt for some time that the Context font mechanism required too much work for too little result. So I use it where feasable but don't feel guilty about dipping back into the \font mechanism where necessary, such as for a title page font.

Thanks, your lowlevel way surely works, but it's not my way. I try to avoid lowlevel command where possible, not only due to a lack of the TeXbook... ;-) Grüßlis vom Hraban! -- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Adam Lindsay

17 Aug 17 Aug

9:58 p.m.

Henning Hraban Ramm said this at Sun, 17 Aug 2003 15:18:53 +0200:

...

You can see, there's SC for every normal font (okay, they're no real small caps, but the like). But I can't access them. There's not even a possibility to access bold caps, is it?

Actually, I discuss that in my OpenType MyWay, also... my solution is to define a font family for roman caps [rc] beside the roman [rm] font family. A change to small caps is done with \switchstyleonly[rc], so if you're in SerifBold, you end up in SerifCapsBold. Take a look in type-atc.tex in the accompanying zip archive for more details... It ends up being memory-hungry, and probably a bit slower than other options, but it kinda works. Funny coincidence, I was looking around apostrophic labs and other free fonts as well, this weekend. Then I found fontsanon.com. :) Cheers, adam -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Computing Dept, Lancaster University +44(0)1524/594.537 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Henning Hraban Ramm

18 Aug 18 Aug

8:53 p.m.

Am Sonntag, 17.08.03, um 23:58 Uhr (Europe/Zurich) schrieb Adam Lindsay:

...

Actually, I discuss that in my OpenType MyWay, also... my solution is to

Ok, one reason more to read it. Instead of further research I did some diligent work the last evenings writing a lot of typescripts that nobody will ever need... ;-)

...

define a font family for roman caps [rc] beside the roman [rm] font family. A change to small caps is done with \switchstyleonly[rc], so if you're in SerifBold, you end up in SerifCapsBold.

Good idea. I don't really understand the family mechanism. Can I define all "styles" like rm, ss... or is ist limited (other than the lack of free two- letter-combinations)?

...

It ends up being memory-hungry, and probably a bit slower than other options, but it kinda works.

I like high level solutions, so I need always lots of memory... ;-)

...

Funny coincidence, I was looking around apostrophic labs and other free fonts as well, this weekend. Then I found fontsanon.com. :)

And what do you think? Better? (I'll have a look later.) I spent some hours writing (that is, ordering and editing) typescripts for Meade's Street family. Don't know if I'll use it... Grüßlis vom Hraban! -- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/

Adam Lindsay

11:29 p.m.

Henning Hraban Ramm said this at Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:53:15 +0200:

...

...
define a font family for roman caps [rc] beside the roman [rm] font family. A change to small caps is done with \switchstyleonly[rc], so if you're in SerifBold, you end up in SerifCapsBold.

Good idea. I don't really understand the family mechanism. Can I define all "styles" like rm, ss... or is ist limited (other than the lack of free two- letter-combinations)?

I have suggested [rc] (roman caps) and [cs] (caps sans) to complement rm and ss. I see no reason why it couldn't go further. Things like [hw] might need some foundational/fallback definitions, though. Need to look further.

...

...
It ends up being memory-hungry, and probably a bit slower than other options, but it kinda works.

I like high level solutions, so I need always lots of memory... ;-)

Yeah. Me too.

...

...
Funny coincidence, I was looking around apostrophic labs and other free fonts as well, this weekend. Then I found fontsanon.com. :)

And what do you think? Better? (I'll have a look later.) I spent some hours writing (that is, ordering and editing) typescripts for Meade's Street family. Don't know if I'll use it...

Hey, that's pretty nifty. I installed loads of fonts, but have nothing in the way of typescripts. I also liked Florencesans and your insight of putting reverse-italics (yuck) in the slanted slot. And this is *after* I spent the weekend compulsively texfonting every default Mac font I could find on my machine. Did anyone get Scriptina to install? The pltotf step in texfont still hangs. Cheers, adam -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Computing Dept, Lancaster University +44(0)1524/594.537 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Jens-Uwe Morawski

19 Aug 19 Aug

2:45 p.m.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:29:27 +0100 "Adam Lindsay" wrote:

...

Did anyone get Scriptina to install? The pltotf step in texfont still hangs.

I did using fontinst. If you (or anyone else) wish i can send an archive containing all necessary files (VFs,TFMs,MAP,typescript,FDs for LaTeX,...). It requires the original PC-Type1 font of Scriptina. The Sciptina-Alternates is not covered, since the AFM glyph-names seem to be wrong. Jens

Adam Lindsay

2:47 p.m.

Jens-Uwe Morawski said this at Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:45:13 +0200:

...

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:29:27 +0100 "Adam Lindsay" wrote:

...
Did anyone get Scriptina to install? The pltotf step in texfont still

hangs.

I did using fontinst. If you (or anyone else) wish i can send an archive containing all necessary files (VFs,TFMs,MAP,typescript,FDs for LaTeX,...). It requires the original PC-Type1 font of Scriptina. The Sciptina-Alternates is not covered, since the AFM glyph-names seem to be wrong.

Right. I noticed the glyph-name problem with the majority of the free type1 fonts out there. I suppose it's to enable normal keyboard access of the alternates. I've been spoiled by OpenType, I guess. Anyway, I'd be interested in the archive of support files. Cheers, adam -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Adam T. Lindsay atl@comp.lancs.ac.uk Computing Dept, Lancaster University +44(0)1524/594.537 Lancaster, LA1 4YR, UK Fax:+44(0)1524/593.608 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Jens-Uwe Morawski

5:34 p.m.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:47:51 +0100 "Adam Lindsay" wrote:

...

Jens-Uwe Morawski said this at Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:45:13 +0200:

...
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 00:29:27 +0100 "Adam Lindsay" wrote:

...
Did anyone get Scriptina to install? The pltotf step in texfont still

hangs.

I did using fontinst. If you (or anyone else) wish i can send an archive containing all necessary files (VFs,TFMs,MAP,typescript,FDs for LaTeX,...). It requires the original PC-Type1 font of Scriptina. The Sciptina-Alternates is not covered, since the AFM glyph-names seem to be wrong.

Right. I noticed the glyph-name problem with the majority of the free type1 fonts out there. I suppose it's to enable normal keyboard access of the alternates.

no, the alternates include some alternate glyphs and lingatures, some of them not found in any common TeX-encoding, i.e. pp-lingature. However, without the alternates the font is nice and useful too.

...

Anyway, I'd be interested in the archive of support files.

will send them off-list Jens

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participants (5)

Adam Lindsay
Hans Hagen
Henning Hraban Ramm
Jens-Uwe Morawski
John Culleton