page on context and XML has moved
I had originally put up a web article on page layout, ConTeXt, and XML. As I said in my original email, the location of that webpage was only temporary. The new address of the webpage is: http://getfo.sourceforge.net/context_xml/index.html The webpage is far from finished. I plan to add many more sections and edit some of the existing ones. Just glancing over the pages, I see many typos. In a similar matter, I had originally started this documentation on the wikki. Can I now remove those pages? (I realize I probably don't need permisssion, but I don't want to remove a page and then have the wikki administrator put it back up.) The page on the wikki is out of date and incorrect in many instances. Also, someone on this email list was nice enough to include a link to the yahoo page. Could that person update the link, when he gets a chance? Thanks Paul -- ************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************
Hello Paul,
In a similar matter, I had originally started this documentation on the wikki. Can I now remove those pages? (I realize I probably don't need permisssion, but I don't want to remove a page and then have the wikki administrator put it back up.)
You can delete any contents and if you put a good reason there, I (as the administrator) or the others (as the more active watchers) would not restore the contents unless there is a good reason. But I have to say that I feel a bit sorry about your decision of moving your pages to somewhere else. At the time before the wiki existed there were (besides the documentation at PRAGMA ADE) several web pages with some content (with very valuable information). But the ConTeXt users didn't know about these pages (except for those reading the mailinglist carefully). That is why I have started contextgarden.net: to put all relevant documentation in one place. Links have a tendency of dying. And the contents behind the links are often outdated, because things (especially in the ConTeXt world) change quickly. And I would not be surprised if this happens to your page, too. And your information is too valuable to get lost or unuseful. I'd suggest to keep the information at the wiki the next time and/or write a myway and put the source and pdf on garden. But thank you for sharing your experience anyway. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 10:13:22AM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
But I have to say that I feel a bit sorry about your decision of moving your pages to somewhere else. At the time before the wiki existed there were (besides the documentation at PRAGMA ADE) several web pages with some content (with very valuable information). But the ConTeXt users didn't know about these pages (except for those reading the mailinglist carefully). That is why I have started contextgarden.net: to put all relevant documentation in one place. Links have a tendency of dying. And the contents behind the links are often outdated, because things (especially in the ConTeXt world) change quickly. And I would not be surprised if this happens to your page, too. And your information is too valuable to get lost or unuseful. I'd suggest to keep the information at the wiki the next time and/or write a myway and put the source and pdf on garden.
I agree with your point. In addition, the wiki pages offer the opportunity for others to give valuable feedback, easily, without having to post an email message. I am really going to miss having this feedback, since it helps me correct both small mistakes and major misconceptions in my documents. My decision was based on practicality, however. You can see already that my documents are very complicated, with many graphics and pieces of example code. I will be constantly changing the pages as I correct mistakes and learn more. I write my documents in XML and generate the HTML files from the XML. This allows me to automatically generate a TOC, keep my links fresh, and generate a detailed index. (I hope to get around to creating an index later.) I run a script to generate the html. I then use rsync to update my files at sourceforge.net. You can imagine how much more difficult it would be to do this with the wiki. Updating changes might take me 5 minutes through sourceforge. It would take me maybe a half an hour if I used the wiki, and even longer as my pages continue to grow. However, that doesn't stop me from creating a myway. (I assume a myway is a ConText document coupled with a PDF file.) I'll try to do this as soon as I have time. Thanks for your feedback Paul -- ************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************
Le 3 avr. 05, à 11:41, Paul Tremblay a écrit :
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 10:13:22AM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
... At the time before the wiki existed there were (besides the documentation at PRAGMA ADE) several web pages with some content ... But the ConTeXt users didn't know about these pages ... That is why I have started contextgarden.net...
... My decision was based on practicality, .. It would take me maybe a half an hour if I used the wiki, and even longer as my pages continue to grow...
You could maintain a micro-page on the wiki which just allows users to find your great document. The aim is for anybody to easely find your document from the wiki. The problem is to not forgot to update the wiki if you change the location of your main page! Thank you for your tutorial! -- Maurice Diamantini
Maurice Diamantini (free) wrote:
Le 3 avr. 05, à 11:41, Paul Tremblay a écrit :
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 10:13:22AM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
... At the time before the wiki existed there were (besides the documentation at PRAGMA ADE) several web pages with some content ... But the ConTeXt users didn't know about these pages ... That is why I have started contextgarden.net...
... My decision was based on practicality, .. It would take me maybe a half an hour if I used the wiki, and even longer as my pages continue to grow...
You could maintain a micro-page on the wiki which just allows users to find your great document. The aim is for anybody to easely find your document from the wiki. The problem is to not forgot to update the wiki if you change the location of your main page!
this makes much sense, something like a summary + pointers another benefit is that users who search the wiki can hit that page and find your additional pages Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------
Le 3 avr. 05, à 21:36, h h extern a écrit :
You could maintain a micro-page on the wiki which just allows users to find your great document. The aim is for anybody to easely find your document from the wiki. The problem is to not forgot to update the wiki if you change the location of your main page!
this makes much sense, something like a summary + pointers
Perhaps, better than creating some bilion of pages with almost nothing in it, wouldn't it be better to add the link in an existing relating page? I think : http://contextgarden.net/Layout Also, the problem of maintaining "life" links is quite real. In that above page, the link "XML ConTeXt site"... doesnt seem to point anywere!? -- Maurice Diamantini
Hello Paul, okay, your workflow really makes putting the document on the wiki impractical, thanks for answering. [...]
However, that doesn't stop me from creating a myway. (I assume a myway is a ConText document coupled with a PDF file.) I'll try to do this as soon as I have time.
Your assumption is correct. See also http://contextgarden.net/My_Way Regards, Patrick PS: Maurice, great suggestion on putting a kind of abstract/mini doc on the wiki and a link. -- ConTeXt wiki: http://contextgarden.net
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 11:03:53PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote:
Hello Paul,
okay, your workflow really makes putting the document on the wiki impractical, thanks for answering.
[...]
However, that doesn't stop me from creating a myway. (I assume a myway is a ConText document coupled with a PDF file.) I'll try to do this as soon as I have time.
Your assumption is correct. See also
http://contextgarden.net/My_Way
Regards,
Patrick
PS: Maurice, great suggestion on putting a kind of abstract/mini doc on the wiki and a link. --
Yes, I agree that this is a good solution. One thing I could do is create an index/toc that is in wiki format every time I produce my documents. Then I can post the index/toc to the wiki page. It might take me a little time to get to this (I am still trying to created documents for many basic ConTeXt things), but I will aim to do this. Paul -- ************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 06:05:40PM -0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 11:03:53PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote: [...]
I just looked at the webpage you mentioned and TeXML resources. If I'm not mistaken it seems it was conceived for LaTeX. Does it really make sense in context of ConTeXt? I'm afraid having a language whose available reference does not even mention ConTeXt only adds up to the existing TeX mess rather than makes it richer. At least the subset which makes use of ConTeXt should be called differently. Sorry for my ignorance. These are just first impressions after having a quick look at the idea. Piotr -- Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D. Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw -----------------------------> http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/ http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti
On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 02:31:04PM +0200, Piotr Kopszak wrote:
On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 11:03:53PM +0200, Patrick Gundlach wrote: [...]
I just looked at the webpage you mentioned and TeXML resources. If I'm not mistaken it seems it was conceived for LaTeX. Does it really make sense in context of ConTeXt? I'm afraid having a language whose available reference does not even mention ConTeXt only adds up to the existing TeX mess rather than makes it richer. At least the subset which makes use of ConTeXt should be called differently. Sorry for my ignorance. These are just first impressions after having a quick look at the idea.
It is true that originally this was designed just for LaTeX. But I became a developer and changed the code so that it will work under ConTeXt. I even provided a script that will convert TeXML directly from XML to PDF or other print formats. The name of this script is texml_con. It is only available on CVS right now, but I should make it available as a package sometime later today. I will have to aske the administrator of the sourceforge site to update the webpage so that it mentions ConTeXt as well. I provide myriads of examples on the webpages in TeXML format. Running the TeXML script on any of these codes will change the documents to valid ConTeXt. Paul -- ************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************
On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 01:09:07PM -0400, Paul Tremblay wrote:
It is true that originally this was designed just for LaTeX. But I became a developer and changed the code so that it will work under ConTeXt. I even provided a script that will convert TeXML directly from XML to PDF or other print formats. The name of this script is texml_con. It is only available on CVS right now, but I should make it available as a package sometime later today.
I will have to aske the administrator of the sourceforge site to update the webpage so that it mentions ConTeXt as well.
I provide myriads of examples on the webpages in TeXML format. Running the TeXML script on any of these codes will change the documents to valid ConTeXt.
Paul
That's very promising indeed. Right now I'm transforming my original xml using xslt to a simpler xml file which can be processed in document order to make the ConTeXt file containing xml formatting commands as simple as possible. It would be nice to end up with an xml file which would contain all the formatting information and make the ConTeXt file unnecessary. But I'm afraid of two things: 1. XSLT transformations will get so complex I will get lost in the stylesheet at some point. 2. How the final finetuning of the appearence of the typeset version should be done? Surely not by fiddling in the xml file which should be generated by xslt (or whatever) and I'm not sure making changes in the xslt stylesheet to make some pages one line shorter or longer is the way to go. Piotr -- Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D. Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw -----------------------------> http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/ http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti
On Tue, Apr 05, 2005 at 10:51:44AM +0200, Piotr Kopszak wrote:
That's very promising indeed. Right now I'm transforming my original xml using xslt to a simpler xml file which can be processed in document order to make the ConTeXt file containing xml formatting commands as simple as possible. It would be nice to end up with an xml file which would contain all the formatting information and make the ConTeXt file unnecessary. But I'm afraid of two things:
1. XSLT transformations will get so complex I will get lost in the stylesheet at some point.
2. How the final finetuning of the appearence of the typeset version should be done? Surely not by fiddling in the xml file which should be generated by xslt (or whatever) and I'm not sure making changes in the xslt stylesheet to make some pages one line shorter or longer is the way to go.
Hi Piotr, First, if you use TeXML, make sure you download the latest version, 1.25-devel. This version is very stable and robust, and has the texml_con script, which converts directly from XML to PDF or whatever format you require: texml_con <any option you can use with texexec> infile It will create a ConTeX file along the way, as its first step. So if your file is modern_photo.xml, a file called modern_photo.tex will be created. You could open the modern_photo.tex file and make small changes on that file. However, if you need to do this, you should instead type: texml.py -e -c modern_photo.xml modern_photo.tex That will create a ConTeXt file, which you can then alter. Of course, having to alter the ConTeXt file defeats the purpose of XML. You should be able to convert directly from XML to PDF. What alterations do you think you will have to make? I know XSLT stylesheets can get very complicated. This is often the case, including when I convert XML to HTML. You could try converting in steps, making a small manageble change on one document, and then making a small manageable change and so on. Let me know your results. Good luck! Paul -- ************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************
Hi Piotr,
First, if you use TeXML, make sure you download the latest version, 1.25-devel. This version is very stable and robust, and has the texml_con script, which converts directly from XML to PDF or whatever format you require:
texml_con <any option you can use with texexec> infile
It will create a ConTeX file along the way, as its first step. So if your file is modern_photo.xml, a file called modern_photo.tex will be created. You could open the modern_photo.tex file and make small changes on that file. However, if you need to do this, you should instead type:
texml.py -e -c modern_photo.xml modern_photo.tex
That will create a ConTeXt file, which you can then alter.
Of course, having to alter the ConTeXt file defeats the purpose of XML. You should be able to convert directly from XML to PDF. What alterations do you think you will have to make?
I know XSLT stylesheets can get very complicated. This is often the case, including when I convert XML to HTML. You could try converting in steps, making a small manageble change on one document, and then making a small manageable change and so on.
Let me know your results. Good luck!
Paul
--
************************ *Paul Tremblay * *phthenry@iglou.com * ************************ _______________________________________________ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
For instance in the last catalogue I was typesetting I had to change hyphenation of some words in the final stage of work. By the way, this is a more general problem. Is it possible to change hyphenation only locally in ConTeXt? That means to exclude possibility of breaking a word in some place on one page and allow it on other pages? I was lucky as I had problems with words that appeared only once in the text so I did not have to bother, but that was an exceptional situation. The other thing that comes to my mind are all the things that \adaptlayout was invented for. I don't believe you can produce large documents without such last touches, but on the other hand it does not make much sense to me to edit by hand the resulting ConTeXt file. Maybe such changes could live in another xml file which could be included at the end of work. Piotr -- Piotr Kopszak, Ph.D. Polish Art Gallery, National Museum in Warsaw -----------------------------> http://kopszak.mnw.art.pl/ http://www.magnatune.com/artists/altri_stromenti
participants (6)
-
h h extern -
Maurice Diamantini -
Maurice Diamantini -
Patrick Gundlach -
Paul Tremblay -
Piotr Kopszak