Reorganization of the main page

Aditya Mahajan

26 Aug 2008 26 Aug '08

4:19 a.m.

Hi, After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are welcome http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page. Aditya

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Andrea Valle

26 Aug 26 Aug

3:11 p.m.

I like it a lot So, new logo from Bohinj? -a- On 26 Aug 2008, at 12:19, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

Hi,

After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are welcome

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Aditya ______________________________________________________________________ _____________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ______________________________________________________________________ _____________

-------------------------------------------------- Andrea Valle -------------------------------------------------- CIRMA - DAMS Università degli Studi di Torino --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/ --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle --> andrea.valle@unito.it -------------------------------------------------- " Think of it as seasoning . noise [salt] is boring . F(blah) [food without salt] can be boring . F(noise, blah) can be really tasty " (Ken Perlin on noise)

Yue Wang

8:03 p.m.

but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google special search here:( On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

Hi,

After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are welcome

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Aditya ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Patrick Gundlach

27 Aug 27 Aug

2:48 a.m.

Hi,

...

but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google special search here:(

I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search areas could be confusing. What do the others think? @Mojca: could you update the custom google search to the new logo? Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Mojca Miklavec

5:10 a.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

Hi,

...
but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google special search here:(

I also agree that wiki search is missing, and I would put a search button somewhere on the top.

...

I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search areas could be confusing.

What do the others think?

@Mojca: could you update the custom google search to the new logo?

Done, but please delete the gray line below the logo. (slightly more than 12 hours since I finally came home, still didn't catch for the lack of sleep :) Mojca

Henning Hraban Ramm

12:35 p.m.

Am 2008-08-27 um 10:48 schrieb Patrick Gundlach:

...

...
but where is the original search buttom? I don't like the google special search here:(

I've removed it in favour of the google one. I thought two search areas could be confusing.

What do the others think?

Mostly I only want to search the wiki and not everything about ConTeXt. Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Marcin Borkowski

1:49 a.m.

Dnia Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 06:19:59AM -0400, Aditya Mahajan napisał(a):

...

Hi,

After the discussions at Bohinj, I have created a new first page of the wiki. I am tried to keep things short and to the point, rather than complete. As a result a lot of links that were present in the original main page are missing. This is the first step in the effort to clean up and reorganize the wiki so that it is easier to browse. Comments are welcome

Very nice work! The new page is way better. I guess the only thing I'm missing is the link to "The ConTeXt Way"; maybe at the beginning of "Specific Subjects..." (which, btw, I'd rename to "Subjects Specific to ConTeXt")?

...

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Aditya

Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl) People can be divided into three groups: those who can count and those who can't.

Alan Stone

2:22 a.m.

It has a much better structure indeed. Missing the wiki-only search feature though. Placing the texshow-web and mail archive links in a more relevant section, instead of hidden in the wiki's left column, would be welcome - especially for newbies. Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what that means. It's geek talk. Better say something like "ConTeXt commands directory" or something else that's meaningful, relevant and useful for them. Samewise: - live context - download - download area All these don't mean a thing to somebody who sees this page for the first time. Live ConTeXt ? What's that ? A live recording of a band named ConTeXt ? (joking ;O) Download and download area? What's the difference ? As a newbie I don't want to have waste my time and click on every link to find out what's behind it. Tell me from the link itself what it means, what's behind it so I can find what I'm looking for and get up to speed asap. As for the logo... Who cares ? Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be productive with it. The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo. Hope that helps. Best, Alan

Patrick Gundlach

3:14 a.m.

Hi,

...

Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

...

Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what that means.

Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that. I'll do so.

...

- live context - download - download area

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking of some.

...

All these don't mean a thing to somebody who sees this page for the first time.

You're right.

...

As for the logo...

Who cares ?

Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be productive with it.

The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo.

Right, but presenting ConTeXt in a more professional way could be worth an effort. A new logo is one step forward, even it will disappear again in some day. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Marcin Borkowski

3:20 a.m.

Dnia Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14:10AM +0200, Patrick Gundlach napisał(a):

...

As for the logo...

...
Who cares ?

Logo's don't enable people to figure out how to use software and be productive with it.

The proof is in the pudding, not in the logo.

Right, but presenting ConTeXt in a more professional way could be worth an effort. A new logo is one step forward, even it will disappear again in some day.

On my personal webpage, I'm using a small wiki engine called oddmuse. It's maunal says in one place: "Logos and little icons (usually smilies) are eye candy and therefore of utmost importance." As you said: a professional-looking logo is a good thing. BTW: the current logo looks like this: O C N E T X T I don't like the order; what about O C N T T X E ? This way, we emphasize the TeX logo inside the ConTeXt one.

...

Patrick

Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl) - Why did a mathematician call his dog Cauchy? - Because it left a residue at every pole.

Eric DÉTREZ

3:53 a.m.

Le 27 août 08 à 11:20, Marcin Borkowski a écrit :

...

As you said: a professional-looking logo is a good thing.

BTW: the current logo looks like this:

O C N E T X T

...

I don't like the order;

I didn't like it neither

...

what about O C N T T X E ?

I rather suggest O C N E T T X

Taco Hoekwater

4 a.m.

Hi, Eric DÉTREZ wrote:

...

I rather suggest

O C N E T T X

I just noticed that at some point, Patrick emailed me a file that went like this: O C N T T EX I'll try to mock something up using that layout, it should work out pretty well Best wishes, Taco

Flavien Lambert

3:26 a.m.

2008/8/27 Patrick Gundlach

...

...
- live context - download - download area

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking of some.

Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ? -- Flavien. ---------------------------- "Quantum objects are completely crazy but, at least, they are all crazy in the same way." R.P. Feynman.

Marcin Borkowski

3:34 a.m.

Dnia Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:26:38AM +0200, Flavien Lambert napisał(a):

...

2008/8/27 Patrick Gundlach

...
...
- live context - download - download area

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking of some.

Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ?

Or maybe: "ConTeXt online" or "ConTeXt in your web browser"? Greets -- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl) - Why vim users don't use the ESC key? - It's too far on the keyboard. It's faster to type ctrl-[.

Henning Hraban Ramm

12:38 p.m.

Am 2008-08-27 um 11:26 schrieb Flavien Lambert:

...

...
- live context - download - download area

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking of some.

Hello guys, what about "In-line ConTeXt" for live context ?

I'd stay with "Live ConTeXt" (or "ConTeXt live") - the "live" idiom is very common, e.g. for Linux CDs. Maybe a newbie expects a CD for trying, but it says "try me". Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer)

Alan Stone

4:33 a.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

Hi,

...
Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I look for next when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find it there, digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything mixed up through one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of structure.

...

...
Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what that means.

Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that. I'll do so.

Reference of what ?

...

Could you suggest some other names? I always have a hard time thinking of some.

...
- live context -> Try out ConTeXt online - download -> Download the ConTeXt application - download area -> Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles, MyWay reports, ...

Some other ideas... - A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be useful. - http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc... This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals, what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution ?" Better might be to say something like: "In order to provide you the easiest and most current ConTeXt installation and updates, the ConTeXt Minimals are the recommended installation", or whatever else is currently most relevant. Best, Alan

Jörg Hagmann

4:54 a.m.

Another vote for keeping the original wiki search Jörg

Mojca Miklavec

5:13 a.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Alan Stone wrote:

...

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...
Hi,

...
Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I look for next when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find it there, digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything mixed up through one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of structure.

You can choose to only search the wiki pages with google.

...

- A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be useful.

- http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc...

This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals, what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution ?"

Hans has updated the zips on Pragma recently, so I'm not so sure any more what's still missing.

...

Better might be to say something like: "In order to provide you the easiest and most current ConTeXt installation and updates, the ConTeXt Minimals are the recommended installation", or whatever else is currently most relevant.

They still don't work quite the way I would like them to work. Mojca

Patrick Gundlach

10:25 a.m.

Hi,

...

...
...
Missing the wiki-only search feature though.

OK, you're number two. I'll think about it.

Here's why Patrick: a wiki being a source of documentation, that's where I look for next when not finding something in the paper manuals and texshow. If I don't find it there, digging deeper through the mailing archive is useful. Having everything mixed up through one google search blurb is oftentimes confusing due to the lack of structure.

But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no matches found. I'd like to have a solution where we only have one search box (google) which only searches the wiki by default. @Mojca: can this be done?

...

...
...
Also, when a newbie reads "texshow-web" (s)he doesn't have a clue what that means.

Jano Kula suggested to rename it to "reference" or sth. like that. I'll do so.

Reference of what ?

of all commands. It is better then texshow(-web). Other suggestions?

...

...
...
- live context -> Try out ConTeXt online - download -> Download the ConTeXt application - download area -> Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles, MyWay reports, ...

Way too long to fit into the left box!

...

Some other ideas...

- A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get started fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be useful.

See Aditya's suggestion. Would this be OK?

...

- http://wiki.contextgarden.net/ConTeXt_Minimals The Minimals are an attempt to provide the same functionality as the current Pragma's minimal ConTeXt distributions in the zip files. Etc...

They will be renamed to either "distribution" or "official distribution" and the "only" supported way of installing context.

...

This is quite confusing for a newbie: "If I install the ConTeXt Minimals, what will I be missing what's in the Pragma's minimal distribution ?"

This is absolutely true. Because of this we will remove the part "minimals" from the name. Thanks a lot for your suggestions! Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Alan Stone

10:55 a.m.

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 6:25 PM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

...
Reference of what ?

of all commands. It is better then texshow(-web). Other suggestions?

Then "commands reference", instead of "reference".

...

...
...
- live context -> Try out ConTeXt online

...
- download -> Download the ConTeXt application - download area -> Download examples, 3rd party modules, articles, MyWay reports, ...

Way too long to fit into the left box!

Make the box wider and/or spread the text over more than one line. If impossible, wiki also sucks regarding this feature. ;O)

...

Some other ideas...

...
- A clearly visible (colored ?) banner or link on top of the main page saying something like "If you're new to ConTeXt, click here to get

started

...
fast..." which redirects to the main page "Getting Started section" might be useful.

See Aditya's suggestion. Would this be OK?

The only way to know is to test it and observe whether newbies ask questions or complain, then adapt if required. Best, Alan

Patrick Gundlach

28 Aug 28 Aug

9:51 a.m.

Hi,

...

But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no matches found.

Would it make sense to default to wiki search for the google search? Mojca, can this be done? Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net

Mojca Miklavec

3:25 p.m.

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Patrick Gundlach wrote:

...

Hi,

...
But the wiki search really sucks. Search for example for 'my Way': no matches found.

Would it make sense to default to wiki search for the google search? Mojca, can this be done?

It must be some very basic trick. I guess that you need to add a hidden field with something like <input type="hidden" name="q" value="more:wiki" /> In any case: search needs to look like: q=bla+more:wiki But I didn't figure out how to do refined searches at the beginning yet. Mojca

Mojca Miklavec

27 Aug 27 Aug

5:30 a.m.

Another request: can the photo please go to blog rather than being on the first page of the wiki? (It's been fun, but I feel that promoting Union on the first page is not the best idea :) Mojca

Yue Wang

28 Aug 28 Aug

2:52 a.m.

in fact i like the logo on the photo. It's cool On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 7:30 PM, Mojca Miklavec wrote:

...

Another request: can the photo please go to blog rather than being on the first page of the wiki? (It's been fun, but I feel that promoting Union on the first page is not the best idea :)

Mojca ___________________________________________________________________________________ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!

maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___________________________________________________________________________________

Mohamed Bana

27 Aug 27 Aug

10 a.m.

Aditya Mahajan writes:

...

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Aditya

Hi, I like it.

Aditya Mahajan

28 Aug 28 Aug

2:35 p.m.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...

http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Since almost everyone liked the new design better, I have changed the main page. Aditya

Marcin Borkowski

11:33 p.m.

Dnia Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 04:35:18PM -0400, Aditya Mahajan napisał(a):

...

On Tue, 26 Aug 2008, Aditya Mahajan wrote:

...
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Main_Page_New

If everyone agrees with the new design, I will replace the current main page.

Since almost everyone liked the new design better, I have changed the main page.

That's great - now I don't have to bookmark the "Main_Page_New"! Thanks!

...

Aditya

-- Marcin Borkowski (http://mbork.faculty.fmcs.amu.edu.pl) 888

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26 comments

13 participants

participants (13)

Aditya Mahajan
Alan Stone
Andrea Valle
Eric DÉTREZ
Flavien Lambert
Henning Hraban Ramm
Jörg Hagmann
Marcin Borkowski
Mohamed Bana
Mojca Miklavec
Patrick Gundlach
Taco Hoekwater
Yue Wang