Re: [NTG-context] Position of prime for derivatives

20 May 2017

      On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
...
On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 9:50 AM, Mikael P. Sundqvist  wrote:
...
Den 18 maj 2017 10:13 fm skrev "Otared Kavian" :
Hi Hans,
Thanks for your explanations.
When using constructions such as $f’’_2(x)$, I will adapt my input  in order
to get what seems correct.
Best regards: OK
...
On 17 May 2017, at 17:17, Hans Hagen  wrote:
On 5/17/2017 8:35 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:
...
Hi Hans,
Thanks for having fixed the behavior of the prime in the latest beta
release (ConTeXt  version 2017.05.15 21:48).
However, as you may see in the two attached PDF files, the result is
still incorrect when one types for example $f_2’’(x)$, which should give the
same result as $f’’_2(x)$.
The correct behaviour is that obtained with mkii. Indeed one can
circumvent the behaviour of the latest beta release of mkiv by using tricks
such as the ones in the example code below, but this should be avoided in my
opinion.
well, it depends on how one sees this '' mess
the problem with primes is that in macro packages they are messy entities
that should collapse or not (active char mess) and the more clever a macro
packages becomes the harder it becomes to makes it robust and/or to fight
against such heuristics
add to that the fact that the symbol itself is a funny positioned
something already raised in a font or not i.e. sometimes in need of
superscript and sometimes explicitly not
for unicode we need to turn two '' into a double and ''' into a and triple
such
that said, in context these thingies are at some point intercepted and
their current state is looked at: superscript? multipel in a row? one ebing
the nucleus of another ... etc .. the current (working again) behavior is
what we support and i don't look forward to more heuristics
...
The following PDF have been obtained with mkii and mkiv with the
following example code.
Best regards: OK
%%% begin derivatives-prime.tex
\starttext
\startformula
f''_{2}(x) = f_{2}''(x) = f^{''}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{''}(x) % =
f^{{}^{''}}_{2}(x)
\stopformula
As one may see the result of \type{f_{2}''(x) = } $f_{2}''(x)$ is not
correct in \type{mkiv}.
The following positions of the superscripts \type{(3)} are correct both
in \type{mkii} and in \type{mkiv}.
\startformula
f^{(3)}_{2}(x) = f_{2}^{(3)}(x)
\stopformula
\stoptext
%%% end derivatives-prime.tex
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                                         Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
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___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to
the Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
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___________________________________________________________________________________
OK, very good, it seems that we have a working solution and one specific way
to write it. I have absolutely nothing against that, but I would like us
(me?) to document it, since I think future users might have use of it. Is
the math page in the wiki the right place?
(It will take some time before I will be able to act. I'm currently
travelling with close to no working connection.)
/Mikael
I'm sorry, but there seem to still be problems with primes.
Look at the height of the primes in this document (ctx-listexample30.pdf).
%%%%
%\definefallbackfamily [lucidaopentype][mm][Xits
Math][range={2660,2661,2662,2663,2664,2665,2666,2667}]
\definefontfamily[lucidaopentype][rm][Lucida Bright OT]
\definefontfamily[lucidaopentype][ss][Lucida Sans OT]
\definefontfamily[lucidaopentype][tt][Lucida Sans Typewriter OT]
\definefontfamily[lucidaopentype][mm][Lucida Bright Math OT]
\setupbodyfont[lucidaopentype,10pt]
\starttext
Look at $f'$ and $f''$
\stoptext
%%%%
If I uncomment the \definefallbackfamily, the result is the one given
in ctx-listexample30-var.pdf, look at the prime. It is still not
correct (and the double prime is wrong as in the first example).
/Mikael
Hi,

I am now more confused. I tried in different fonts, and the result is
attached. The difference in height of the prime and the double prime
is confusing me. In some fonts the prime is above the double prime, in
some the other way around (the worst is lucida, which perhaps is why I
saw it in the first place). Does someone understand why this is so? Is
it the fonts that are constructed like this?

/Mikael

PS The test file I used was the following, with the natural changes in
fonts each time.

\definefontfamily[myface][rm][TeX Gyre Pagella]
\definefontfamily[myface][mm][TeX Gyre Pagella Math]
\setupbodyfont[myface,10pt]
\starttext
\startTEXpage[offset=2pt]
$f'f''$
\stopTEXpage
\stoptext