Re: [NTG-context] bibliography again: “von” and “van”

As I have already replied to Hans’ post, I don’t mind using the “double braces solution” as an easy workaround to distinguish German “vons” and Dutch “vans”. But I am not sure if that solution solves the problems with French and Spanish name attributes as well. Greetings Jörg On 28.01.2015 04:10, Alan BRASLAU wrote:

I have been arguing with Hans over the proper treatment of "particles", in general. The rules vary greatly - here we are looking at a comparison between Dutch and German practice. In French, the use often depends on history differing before and after the revolution. In Spanish, we have other practice.

One solution is to make the rendering depend on the "language=" bibtex field. But this does not work universally. With Hans, we have extended the bibtex standard so that names can be explicitly separated, as in: author = {particle, lastname, suffix, firstname} This allows the author to use a free form for each component without resorting to any bibtex trickery (like capitalization or not). How these components are handled or rendered is not entirely worked out. Indeed, the German practice differs from others. Thus my suggestion of the use of the language field (or setting).

Alan

On Tue, 27 Jan 2015 21:50:44 +0100 Hans Hagen wrote:

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On 1/27/2015 8:16 PM, Keith Schultz wrote:

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Hi Jörg,

Though, generally, the von, as well as a few others, are nobility particles in Germany, but not necessarily always noblility particles, but at times signify the place where a persons ancestor came from!

Now, in the case Goethe you are right that he was ennobled. Therefore the von is not truly part of his name. He should be listed as you rightly mentioned under Goethe and not "von Goethe“.

It is impossible for a bibliographic system to handle this, so there is no switch for it!

you can try to wrap thing that belong together in { } ... it might work

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So, it is up to the author of a text to set up his entries properly, by putting the von in the right part of the name field.

indeed, not all can be catched in a poorly specified format

btw, context loads the bib data in memory and fields of type author get split into multiple authors and each is split into parts; most magic is under our own control so we can always add variants if needed (maybe some prefix that indicates a german name or so) but anyway this whole von business is on our agenda

Hans

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