Happy I could help! The \btxflushauthornormal command should handle the authorconversion switch that you want. Just remember that if you need to use different et al. settings in citations as well, you should use \currentbtxciteauthorbyfield!

Joey

On Fri, Aug 27, 2021, 7:22 AM Ágoston Volcz via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote:
After I have seen your code snippet, the command \btxflushauthornormal
grabbed my attention. This command and its variations are indeed what
I was looking for. As I think the documentation doesn't mention these
advanced commands, I didn't even know they exist.
Thanks for sharing your discovery!

Agoston

Am Fr., 27. Aug. 2021 um 05:09 Uhr schrieb Joey McCollum via
ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl>:
>
> Nevermind, it looks like there's an even more deliberate and succinct way to handle this! In publ-ini.mkiv, the \currentbtxciteauthorbyfield command shows how to print the author field mapped according to the cite style:
>
> ```
> \unexpanded\def\currentbtxciteauthorbyfield
>   {\begingroup
>    %\setbtxparameterset\s!cite\s!author
>    % the alternatives inherit from cite:author
>    % and APA distinguishes authoryears from authoryear ("and" vs. "&")
>    \setbtxparameterset\s!cite\currentbtxcitealternative
>    \clf_btxauthor
>         {\currentbtxdataset}%
>         {\currentbtxtag}%
>         {\currentbtxauthorfield}%
>         {%
>             combiner    {\btxparameter\c!authorconversion}%
>             kind        {cite}%
>             etallimit   {\btxparameter\c!etallimit}%
>             etaldisplay {\btxparameter\c!etaldisplay}%
>             etaloption  {\btxparameter\c!etaloption}%
>             symbol      {\btxparameter{\c!stopper:initials}}%
>         }%
>   \relax
>   \endgroup}
> ```
>
> The snippet above might offer some guidance on how to handle this problem more generally, but for my specific use case, it suffices to invoke the \currentbtxciteauthorbyfield command:
>
> ```
> \doifelse {\currentbtxcitealternative} {entry} {
>     % Normal order for in-text citations
>      \currentbtxciteauthorbyfield
> } {
>     % Inverted order for list citations
>     % TODO: need to print the first name inverted, with all subsequent names in normal order
>     \btxflush{author}
> }
> ```
>
> I get the feeling that there are more relevant commands in publ-ini.mkiv that are intended to help with this kind of thing, but I've just been unaware of most of them. The existing bibliography documentation only covers the tip of the iceberg!
>
> Anyway, I realized that a couple months ago, Ágoston Volcz raised a similar issue in another thread. I think this approach should solve that problem, so when I get a chance, I can send an e-mail about that.
>
> Joey
>
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 3:38 PM Joey McCollum <jmccollum20140511@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, I've made some progress! Thankfully, the authorconversion rules can be overridden using some of the methods defined in publ-ini.mkiv. I now have something like this in my rendering's .mkvi file:
>>
>> ```
>> \doifelse {\currentbtxcitealternative} {entry} {
>>     % Normal order for in-text citations
>>     \btxflushauthornormal{author}
>> } {
>>     % Inverted order for list citations
>>     % TODO: need to print the first name inverted, with all subsequent names in normal order
>>     \btxflushauthorinverted{author}
>> }
>> ```
>>
>> This fixes the citation alternative-dependent authorconversion, but I still have to do the same for the etallimit and etaldisplay settings, and unfortunately, it doesn't look like there are similar commands for overriding this locally.
>>
>> Digging a bit more in publ-imp-chicago.lua and publ-imp-chicago.mkvi, I notice that it deals with a similar problem for the "editor" field: if the editor occurs in the "author" position (i.e., at the start of the citation, which happens when a book has an editor but no author), then the authorconversion should be inverted, but if the editor occurs after the author position (which happens when a book also has an author), then its authorconversion should be normalshort. The publ-imp-chicago.lua file addresses this by specifying an "ineditor" set containing only the "editor" field (essentially making it an alias to be used later), and then publ-imp-chicago.mkvi defines a style specifically for this field. I could solve the authorconversion, etallimit, and etaldisplay problems using an "entryauthor" field, but is this actually the recommended way to do this? Using this approach, I would have to have duplicate sets for nearly all "author"-type fields to ensure that they have different formatting in entry citations than they do in the list.
>>
>> Joey
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 5:45 PM Joey McCollum <jmccollum20140511@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to implement a custom bibliography rendering where in-text citations (specifically, citations with alternative=entry) are not identical to the entries in the bibliography list. Following a pattern I've seen in publ-imp-chicago.mkvi, I've been able to implement most of the features I'm interested in by using conditional formatting with a mode that is specifically set for citations with the "entry" alternative. I'd also like for author names in entry citations to be different author names in list entries, in the following ways:
>>>
>>> In entry citations, authorconversion should be normal, while in list entries, authorconversion should be inverted (more specifically, the first name should be inverted, while all subsequent names should be in normal order...but if this is too complicated, then it may be an issue for another e-mail thread, and we can just focus on normal vs. inverted for now).
>>> In entry citations, "et al." should be used for any names after the third name, while in list entries, all names should be printed in full.
>>>
>>> I thought that the following settings would work:
>>>
>>> \definebtx
>>>   [sbl:\s!list]
>>>   [sbl]
>>>   [\c!otherstext=,
>>>   \c!etallimit=,
>>>   \c!etaldisplay=,
>>>   \c!etaloption=,
>>>   \c!authorconversion=inverted] % TODO: need to print the first name inverted, with all subsequent names in normal order
>>>
>>> \definebtx
>>>   [sbl:\s!cite]
>>>   [sbl]
>>>   [\c!otherstext={\btxspace\btxlabeltext{others}}, % use et al. for truncated author / editor list
>>>    \c!etallimit=3, % don't use et al. for 3 or fewer authors
>>>    \c!etaldisplay=3, %
>>>    \c!authorconversion=\v!normal] % by default, use normal name order for in-text citations
>>>
>>> But only the "list" settings seem to be used. I suspect this might be because the setup for "entry" citations invokes \btxhandleciteentry and therefore uses "list" settings everywhere except where I check modes for conditional formatting. But is there a command or environment I can use to change authorconversion locally, based on the current mode, in the helper methods I've defined for rendering bibliography entries?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Joey
>
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