Taco Hoekwater wrote:

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It would be nice to have a gforge environment available for tracking context changes/wishes/bugs. Even without SVN, the tracking features can be very helpful.

A lot of people seem to be using Trac for this kind of stuff. It even interfaces with subversion (if that’s the SCM you must use (there are a lot better ones, but I guess subversion is the most windows-friendly at the moment)).

I believe subversion is the most 'cvs-user' friendly system, and it is widely supported by lots of software, but perhaps those are not the best arguments. Can you give me a pointer to something better?

Yes, that is true, but as you say, this may not be the best arguments. There’s darcs (www.darcs.net), git (http://www.kernel.org/git/), and GNU Arch (gnuarch.org) (and the Bazaar project (bazaar.canonical.com)). My current preference is Arch, but git looks promising _if they get their act together_. Darcs is very simple to use and very powerful. The downside is that it is written in Haskell, so it requires non-standard tools to compile. I do, however, believe that it has been ported to windows. Arch and git have less than usable support for windows at the moment, as far as I know. I’d suggest looking into all the current alternatives to CVS before deciding on one. Subversion is considered to be nothing but a ill-thought-through upgrade to CVS by the people who know what they’re talking about.

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More information at http://trac.edgewall.com/trac/,

Trac looks lice, and it is apparently easier to set up than Gforge, that's a good thing. On the downside, it uses SQLite, and it seems that multiple project support is 'not there yet'.

From a users’s perspective, GForge is less than optimal. At least from my perspective as a user. It’s trackers are hard to use and hard to manage (and plain ugly to look at - heck, bugzilla’s even prettier). I don’t see a problem with SQLite, but I may not be seeing the whole picture. Multiple project support would be nice, though, nikolai

-- Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/! Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden. main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

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I agree that the tracking at gforge is ugly. But if we only need a bugtracker and/or feature request tracker, I'd rather hack it myself

At least I see no immediate reason for anything besides that. Taco

Brooks Moses wrote:

Personally, I've been using subversion (and the TortoiseSVN Windows front-end) for about six months for my own projects, and have been very

indeed tortoise is great; i played with it some time ago (i want to set up an svn for some projects but first we need to get some terabyte nas system running -)

happy with it. Part of my joy with it is because it's the first proper version-control software I've used (well, ok, I tried cvs once, but didn't get enough out of it to make it worth the bother), but it does work exceptionally well at doing what I need -- namely, providing a simple repository that I can use to synchronize working directories between various computers with a minimum of bother, allowing me to back up things with nearly zero trouble, and allowing me to occasionally revert things to previous versions.

do you have any experience with sychronizing two repositories? Hans ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl -----------------------------------------------------------------

At 02:14 PM 5/30/2005, Hans Hagen wrote:

Brooks Moses wrote:

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happy with it. Part of my joy with it is because it's the first proper version-control software I've used (well, ok, I tried cvs once, but didn't get enough out of it to make it worth the bother), but it does work exceptionally well at doing what I need -- namely, providing a simple repository that I can use to synchronize working directories between various computers with a minimum of bother, allowing me to back up things with nearly zero trouble, and allowing me to occasionally revert things to previous versions.

do you have any experience with sychronizing two repositories?

Not as such, no, though if it would be valuable I could look into it and report back. What sort of synchronization, exactly, are you thinking of? The closest I've come to doing that was replicating my primary repository onto a local-disk repository, using that for a week or so while I was away from an internet connection, and then splitting off the new commits and feeding them onto the end of the primary repository. That turned out to be relatively straightforward in both directions, but it's a bit simpler than a general-purpose synchronization. - Brooks

Brooks Moses wrote:

Personally, I've been using subversion (and the TortoiseSVN Windows front-end) for about six months for my own projects, and have been very happy with it. Part of my joy with it is because it's the first proper version-control software I've used (well, ok, I tried cvs once, but didn't get enough out of it to make it worth the bother), but it does work exceptionally well at doing what I need -- namely, providing a simple repository that I can use to synchronize working directories between various computers with a minimum of bother, allowing me to back up things with nearly zero trouble, and allowing me to occasionally revert things to previous versions.

The problem with subversion is that it lends too many ideas from CVS. The command-set may be easy to learn, but it isn't very powerful. It doesn't work well with merging many peoples repositories into one, as there is always one main repository, as in CVS, not free-standing ones, as in Arch, darcs, and so on. I'd suggest that you give either one of Arch or darcs a try. darcs is especially well suited as an upgrade from CVS or subversion, as it is simple to use and has a command-set that resembles that of either SCM. It is, however, a lot easier to work with, as repositories are completely independent and patches can selectively be merged between repositories with ease.

As for setting it up: it's got two different options for running a repository server -- either running it as a standalone server, or integrating it with Apache as a web service. The former is dead simple; install the program, run one command to set up a repository, run another to start the daemon. The Apache integration appeared to me to be one of the things that looked difficult to me but is probably much easier for someone who knows how to run a web server.

Another problem with CVS/subversion. With Arch and darcs, there’s no need for a server. All you need is scp/WebDAV/ftp/file access to the repository, nikolai -- Nikolai Weibull: now available free of charge at http://bitwi.se/! Born in Chicago, IL USA; currently residing in Gothenburg, Sweden. main(){printf(&linux["\021%six\012\0"],(linux)["have"]+"fun"-97);}

Patrick Gundlach wrote:

Hi,

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It would be nice to have a gforge environment available for tracking context changes/wishes/bugs. Even without SVN, the tracking features can be very helpful.

What kind of tracking? I have played a bit with bugtrackes and installed bugzilla a while ago but deleted it 4 minutes later, because the system was far too complicated.

Much like my experience with bugzilla. ;-)

Later I installed a simple ruby program. See http://gardenbugs.contextgarden.net. Just create an account and play with it, Don't be afraid to put nonsense in there (I forgot about the software until your mail). Warning, this is currently dead slow because of lack of fastcgi.

Does Bugtrack allow anonymous browsing (and perhaps adding) of entries? For a 'feature request' list, that would definately be needed. If so, then it looks like it might be the right tool for the job. It is very minimalistic though. What I would like is something with all the 'Tracker' subsystem functionality in gforge, but nothing else besides that (no mailing lists, fora, wiki's, websites, top10's, repositories, etc.) See e.g. http://sarovar.org/tracker/?group_id=230 for an example (sorry don't know of an equivalent example for Trac)

An external subversion server should not be complicated. I already have svn running here for my own garden-development and I already created a public context repository a while ago (but removed it because $REASON).

I believe Hans wants to set up a local repository (from his viewpoint), with possibly external read access for us. Any other solution would hinder his development cycle. Taco

Hello out there,

Does Bugtrack allow anonymous browsing (and perhaps adding) of entries?

Not that I am aware of.

For a 'feature request' list, that would definately be needed.

Right.

If so, then it looks like it might be the right tool for the job. It is very minimalistic though.

I like minimalistic things :-) esp. music.

See e.g. http://sarovar.org/tracker/?group_id=230 for an example (sorry don't know of an equivalent example for Trac)

OK, that looks intuitive to me. Patrick -- ConTeXt wiki and more: http://contextgarden.net